| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Is there any database of feedback on freelancers available? Thread poster: Albert Fischer (Dipl. Jur., LL.B., BDÜ)
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Hello people,
Do you know whether on Proz or elsewhere, there is a database where agancies/companies/outsourcers exchange information about their past collaborations with freelancers, i.e. about their skill and timeliness and so forth? Is there a Blue Board about individual freelancers?
Kind regards,
Albert
| | | | Mirelluk 
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:51
Member (2005)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Under review on Proz | Sep 14, 2012 |
Dear Albert,
I am not aware of any web site dealing with your question which I suppose concerns negative criticism rather than positive feed back on translators.
The matter i... See more Dear Albert,
I am not aware of any web site dealing with your question which I suppose concerns negative criticism rather than positive feed back on translators.
The matter is being considered by Proz (see http://proz.uservoice.com/forums/37172-general/suggestions/705976-there-should-be-a-freelancer-blue-board-as-well-).
I hope it will be more articulate than a 1-5 marking: some translators have excellent language skills but are unable to stick to deadlines. Others do not follow instructions, or are uneasy with new technology (e.g. CAT tools) or even forget to issue their invoices!
In my opinion failing to comment on "bad" translators somewhat damages "good" translators which instead should be praised for their valuable contribution. We might end up dumbing down the reputation of the whole profession.
I look forward to seeing any step forward in this matter.
Mirella ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Completely disagree with the idea | Sep 14, 2012 |
The existence of lists like the Blueboard about agencies and companies makes total sense since we freelancers are the weaker link in the chain: we are the ones who do the work and need to be paid to survive.
We freelancers cannot ask companies for certificates, official statements and bank letters proving their trustworthiness as a business partner or their credit status, and our only way to protect ourselves from bad payers and scammers are lists like the Blueboard.
Wh... See more The existence of lists like the Blueboard about agencies and companies makes total sense since we freelancers are the weaker link in the chain: we are the ones who do the work and need to be paid to survive.
We freelancers cannot ask companies for certificates, official statements and bank letters proving their trustworthiness as a business partner or their credit status, and our only way to protect ourselves from bad payers and scammers are lists like the Blueboard.
When an outsourcer chooses a translator, they have a lot more information about what they need to know, which is quality, reliability, and good professional practices, all easily proven by university diplomas, association memberships, years in business, certification by professional bodies and, in the case of Proz.com, the "Willingness to Work Again" list, in which you can see people who hired the freelancer and their comments about their satisfaction. All this is plenty of information for the conscious outsourcer who is able to choose wisely.
Creating a "blacklist of freelancers" would only serve clumsy or uncareful outsourcers who did not do their job in screening their translators and feel that they have to complain about the result of their own mistake choosing an inappropriate freelancer.
[Edited at 2012-09-14 13:10 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 22:51
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Your current option is... | Sep 14, 2012 |
Albert Fischer (Dipl. Jur., LL.B., BDÜ) wrote:
Is there a Blue Board about individual freelancers?
No, not yet. At this time, clients can leave positive comments about translators but not negative ones. And there is no directory of translators with comments, but you can select the "Client feedback" option near the bottom of the list of options in a directory search:
http://www.proz.com/translator-directory/
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Mirelluk
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:51
Member (2005)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Tomás concerns | Sep 14, 2012 |
Dear Tomás,
I fully understand your concerns, which are justified and point out freelancers' vulnerability.
Like all tools, a translators' Blueboard, could be misused, unless the right to reply is guaranteed and the site is moderated.
Even the most skilled and professional linguists have bad hair days and that does not make them "bad" in absolute terms. We never assess the standard of our translators based only on one or even two jobs.
There... See more Dear Tomás,
I fully understand your concerns, which are justified and point out freelancers' vulnerability.
Like all tools, a translators' Blueboard, could be misused, unless the right to reply is guaranteed and the site is moderated.
Even the most skilled and professional linguists have bad hair days and that does not make them "bad" in absolute terms. We never assess the standard of our translators based only on one or even two jobs.
There is a growing need for a tool that allows outsourcers to blacklist or at least publicly comment on unreliable translators. Each translation company has its own grading system but, generally, information is not shared. Dealing with unprofessional translators is costly, time consuming and can have serious reputation consequences for a translation company if and when corrective steps are not pursued.
It is fundamental that such tool is created through the cooperation between agencies and freelancers, for instance on a site like Proz, and I am convinced that professional translators would benefit from it.
Several years ago it was simply unthinkable to blacklist agencies, let alone doing it on the ever-present internet, whilst today such possibility is accessible to everybody and we all welcome it.
I see your point and I hope you can see the other side of the debate.
Best wishes,
Mirella ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Data protection legislation | Sep 14, 2012 |
If there were such a register, it would most probably breach data protection legislation in a number of countries.
For example, to keep a database of natural persons, which is what freelancers by their very nature are, without their consent is in itself illegal in Sweden. That is unless you get permission from the Swedish data protection agency. To then publish this register online would be an even more serious breach.
To my knowledge this also applies to the UK and m... See more If there were such a register, it would most probably breach data protection legislation in a number of countries.
For example, to keep a database of natural persons, which is what freelancers by their very nature are, without their consent is in itself illegal in Sweden. That is unless you get permission from the Swedish data protection agency. To then publish this register online would be an even more serious breach.
To my knowledge this also applies to the UK and most probably to many/all countries in the EU. Considering how seriously the US views the protection individual rights, I have a feeling they might have similar legislation.
Agencies, and other companies, are a totally different kettle of fish - they are generally not considered to be natural persons . Where the line between companies and sole traders with a registered trading name lies, I do not know.
Please note that I am not a lawyer and my posting is based on more limited legal studies as well as an in-house job which requires me to keep up-to-date with current data protection legislation. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I do not agree | Sep 14, 2012 |
Mirelluk wrote:
There is a growing need for a tool that allows outsourcers to blacklist or at least publicly comment on unreliable translators. Each translation company has its own grading system but, generally, information is not shared. Dealing with unprofessional translators is costly, time consuming and can have serious reputation consequences for a translation company if and when corrective steps are not pursued.
This takes me again to my point: agencies must choose their translators more carefully, and should be ready to pay for the quality they expect. It would not be fair to choose translators lightly, pay them poorly, and then complain that they did not perform as expected, and I somehow suspect that this would be the main use of the list you propose.
You cannot surely create a blacklist of car models to complain that an old Skoda does not have leather upholstery, built-in GPS navigation, ABS and ASR. Each kind of translator fits a need. Agencies just have to make an effort to find them.
Mirelluk wrote:
I see your point and I hope you can see the other side of the debate.
As you can see... I don't, and I don't because you make it all sound good, reasonable, and for the good of professional translators, when the end goal might not be that positive. The good thing agencies can do for professional translators --and for themselves-- is exactly that: choose professional translators and pay them professional rates.
| | | | | A blacklist of translators would be a recipe for abuse | Sep 15, 2012 |
Mirelluk wrote:
There is a growing need for a tool that allows outsourcers to blacklist or at least publicly comment on unreliable translators. Each translation company has its own grading system but, generally, information is not shared. Dealing with unprofessional translators is costly, time consuming and can have serious reputation consequences for a translation company if and when corrective steps are not pursued.
It is fundamental that such tool is created through the cooperation between agencies and freelancers, for instance on a site like Proz, and I am convinced that professional translators would benefit from it.
This is so wrong that it is difficult to even know where to start. A system such as you suggest would be very easy to manipulate by unscrupulous agencies, for example:
"If you don't remove the low rating you gave us on the blue board, we are going to blacklist you, so that other agencies will never give you work"
"Think again, chum, not only we don't accept your rate. You must accept ours, and if you don't we'll spread the word through the blacklist. You won't find other outsources to work with"
Or thank of the uses some agency could come up with: a sample entry from any future blacklist
"Jane Doe - good translator, reasonable quality. If you push you'll always get to lower her rates - she's a really easy mark"
[Edited at 2012-09-15 20:02 GMT]
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Jaroslaw Michalak
Poland
Local time: 22:51
Member (2004)
English to Polish
SITE LOCALIZER
The translation agencies have two kinds of significant assets: their clients and their translators. Do you really expect them to share with you the data on their best people, so that you can win them over and better compete with them?
It happens so that most of my clients guard their translator database very closely - no wonder, considering how much effort they put in gathering them. That means that I might not get their feedback at all, which in turn could negatively affect my chan... See more The translation agencies have two kinds of significant assets: their clients and their translators. Do you really expect them to share with you the data on their best people, so that you can win them over and better compete with them?
It happens so that most of my clients guard their translator database very closely - no wonder, considering how much effort they put in gathering them. That means that I might not get their feedback at all, which in turn could negatively affect my chances with other clients. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I do hope ProZ shelves this harebrained notion | Sep 16, 2012 |
Sad indeed would be the day where quality-minded, professional and experienced translators have to depend on agency feedback for their survival. I fully concur with comments made by Riccardo (whose excellent post I have read and commented) and Tomás.
| | | | Strastran (X)
France
Local time: 22:51
French to English
+ ...
A hilariously bad idea, for the many reasons mentioned above.
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 13:51
English to German
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In memoriam | Hilarious, indeed. | Sep 17, 2012 |
Whoever came up with this terrific idea apparently forgot about the fact that freelancers are neither employees nor temps. It is the freelancer who invests work, time and manpower into a project before he is paid. Yet those one-man shows are supposed to be rated like canine participants in a dog show? You must be kidding.
BTW, this one takes the cake:
Mirelluk wrote:
or even forget to issue their invoices! 
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 22:51
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Jabberwock wrote:
Do you really expect them to share with you the data on their best people, so that you can win them over and better compete with them?
They already do that -- it's called WWA.
Much of the same arguments against a translator BB also applies to a client BB, and the client BB is thiving. It is also not unheard of for clients to provide references for their translators when other clients (even other agencies) call them up.
A translator BB will be abused, of course, just like the translator BB is currently abused. But on the whole, the BB is very, very useful.
A translator BB could also help encourage translators to improve themselves. I imagine for the moment a system similar to product ratings, whereby the client grades the translator out of 5 for a number of aspects, e.g.:
* work was delivered at the agreed date/time (either just Y/N, or with clearly defined grades, e.g. 1 = wasn't delivered, 2 = was delivered days late, 3 = was delivered hours late, 4 = was delivered at agreed time, but translator requested extension after starting on the job, 5 = was delivered on time)
* communicated promptly and efficiently (1-5, or N/A)
* followed reference materials and style guide closely (1-5, or N/A)
* followed glossary and/or TM closely (1-5, or N/A)
* delivered in the correct format (1-5, or Y/N, or N/A)
* invoiced promptly and correctly (1-5, or N/A)
Samuel
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 13:51
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
Samuel Murray wrote:
* invoiced promptly and correctly (1-5, or N/A)
I don't think that the translator's internal workflow and schedule in terms of bookkeeping is any of the client's business. If the translator has delivered a job on Monday but keeps a highly disciplined and organized schedule for his bookkeeping, say, Fridays, he is supposed to be criticized for "not sending his invoice promptly"?
I don't think so.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 22:51
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Definition of promptly | Sep 17, 2012 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
If the translator has delivered a job on Monday but keeps a highly disciplined and organized schedule for his bookkeeping, say, Fridays, he is supposed to be criticized for "not sending his invoice promptly"?
Good point -- some clients would have weird ideas about what "promptly" means. I did not realise that 7 days would not be regarded as promptly by some. The period I had in mind for "not promptly" was more in the region of 7 weeks.
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