| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Statute of limitation in Belgium? Agency refuses to pay. Thread poster: Mikhail Kropotov
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| Statute of limitations in Italy too | May 8 |
Does this customer's refusal to pay look legitimate to you?
In April I attended a talk by a member of the translation association I belong to here in Italy, and it appears the same law exists in Italy, and the time period is the same if my memory serves me well. So I fear the agency is right.
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Oriol VIP wrote:
Unfortunately, these things happen and in the translation world there are more common than they should be.
This bugs me specially, a normative to allow not complying with the normative... ah, the modern, twisted world in which thiefs are victims! In my opinion, since they avoided the law for five years (and it's not your fault if you didn't pursue them: it was their obligation to pay in the first place, and you have a job to do, which is not being a debt hunter), you have no obligation to make things easier for them. Screw statue of limitation. Use whatever means you have to complicate their life (they did quite worse to you).
So go to all the possible online sites you can find and explain what they did. Show the same mercy they showed you. Let everybody know. Think of it this way: you are saving innocent, poor, lonely outsourcers from being scammed by dishonest people who don't care a damn about the people they hire or send their jobs to. You can probably help some innocent mouths not to starve while being transparent and letting everybody know what happened to you! That's one of the beautiful things about seeking justice -it creates synergies!
[Edited at 2024-05-07 18:46 GMT]
They didn't avoid the law for five years. Issuing invoices is part of our job and no company will pay you without an invoice. Yes, they could have noticed that a job hadn't been invoiced and chased it up but realistically that probably won't happen in most cases. It's up to us to keep on top of our admin.
| | | | Peter Motte 
Belgium
Local time: 03:07
Member (2009)
English to Dutch
+ ...
I don't know about this particular issue, but if you did a job in 2016, almost 10 years ago, than it's a bit odd to come up with the bill only now. Lots of things change in 10 years time.
But apart from that: recent legislation requires you to send a bill in a much shorter time. I think you have to send your bills within 2 months to be on the safe side. And as far as I remember, that's not Belgian law, but European law.
I also think that in Belgium nowadays you're onl... See more I don't know about this particular issue, but if you did a job in 2016, almost 10 years ago, than it's a bit odd to come up with the bill only now. Lots of things change in 10 years time.
But apart from that: recent legislation requires you to send a bill in a much shorter time. I think you have to send your bills within 2 months to be on the safe side. And as far as I remember, that's not Belgian law, but European law.
I also think that in Belgium nowadays you're only obliged to keep bills etc. for 5 years. So, if the job was done more than 5 years ago, they aren't even obliged to have something on record going that far back.
[Edited at 2024-05-09 09:42 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Peter Motte
Belgium
Local time: 03:07
Member (2009)
English to Dutch
+ ...
| Might be true, but... | May 9 |
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida wrote:
I lived in Belgium for 30 years and, as far as I know, the limitation period for a debt in Belgium varies depending on the type of service, for example it's 6 months for a hotel or restaurant bill, 2 years for medical expenses, 5 years for lawyer or expert fees, 10 years for car repairs, etc.
That might be true, but there is a difference between "the limitation period for a debt" and the limitation period for sending the bill. So I don't think the periods you mention here are relevant in this case.
I don't know how high the debt is, but if it's a small amount, I would advice you to drop it.
[Edited at 2024-05-09 09:48 GMT]
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| Best to consult a Belgian "huissier" | May 9 |
Colleagues have rightly underlined the vagueness of the term "expert". I personally have strong doubts that "experts" in this case, especially cited next to "lawyers/ avocat (fr)", could refer to translators. Lawyers, as are notaries, accountants and various "experts" - a collective term for very specific prof. activities - in Belgium are members of the so-called "professions libérales" (it has to do with the state regulation of their fees and charges). It is a fact, that translators or interpr... See more Colleagues have rightly underlined the vagueness of the term "expert". I personally have strong doubts that "experts" in this case, especially cited next to "lawyers/ avocat (fr)", could refer to translators. Lawyers, as are notaries, accountants and various "experts" - a collective term for very specific prof. activities - in Belgium are members of the so-called "professions libérales" (it has to do with the state regulation of their fees and charges). It is a fact, that translators or interpreters are not considered "professions libérales" in Belgium. I believe it is that kind of "experts" that is implied in the cited example.
I would consult a "huissier". A huissier typically simply writes a couple of letters to the other party; often this would be sufficient to resolve the debt situation.
Hope this helps and good luck! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Peter Motte
Belgium
Local time: 03:07
Member (2009)
English to Dutch
+ ...
| Translators ARE "profession libérales" (vrije beroepen) | May 10 |
Elena Bocharova-Booth wrote:
Lawyers, as are notaries, accountants and various "experts" - a collective term for very specific prof. activities - in Belgium are members of the so-called "professions libérales" (it has to do with the state regulation of their fees and charges). It is a fact, that translators or interpreters are not considered "professions libérales" in Belgium. I believe it is that kind of "experts" that is implied in the cited example
On the contrary, translators do belong to the "vrije beroepen" (= "professions libérales") since at least a decade. I clearly remember because back in those days I was member of a professional association, and I was one of those who suggested to enlist translators under "vrije beroepen". That might be 15 years ago.
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:07
Serbian to English
+ ...
| Start by sending them | May 11 |
by registered / signed om delivery snail-mail a "reminder" that they still owe you such and such amount for such and such service delivered at such and such date, and accepted without any complaint.
Next steps would depend on their reaction.
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:07
Serbian to English
+ ...
Rachel Waddington wrote: Oriol VIP wrote:
Unfortunately, these things happen and in the translation world there are more common than they should be.
This bugs me specially, a normative to allow not complying with the normative... ah, the modern, twisted world in which thiefs are victims! In my opinion, since they avoided the law for five years (and it's not your fault if you didn't pursue them: it was their obligation to pay in the first place, and you have a job to do, which is not being a debt hunter), you have no obligation to make things easier for them. Screw statue of limitation. Use whatever means you have to complicate their life (they did quite worse to you).
So go to all the possible online sites you can find and explain what they did. Show the same mercy they showed you. Let everybody know. Think of it this way: you are saving innocent, poor, lonely outsourcers from being scammed by dishonest people who don't care a damn about the people they hire or send their jobs to. You can probably help some innocent mouths not to starve while being transparent and letting everybody know what happened to you! That's one of the beautiful things about seeking justice -it creates synergies!
[Edited at 2024-05-07 18:46 GMT] They didn't avoid the law for five years. Issuing invoices is part of our job and no company will pay you without an invoice. Yes, they could have noticed that a job hadn't been invoiced and chased it up but realistically that probably won't happen in most cases. It's up to us to keep on top of our admin.
"no company will pay you without an invoice"?
Not quite.
In theory yes.
In practice, I know of a number of companies who for various reasons just pay their subcontractors and generate themselves the "subcontractors' invoices".
Being so eager to avoid payment on the grounds that the debt is supposedly past the statutes of limitation doesn't give a good impression.
In fact I received few payments (in time!) without any formal invoice being sent.
ALSO
regarding "if a debt is not pursued over an extended period, that debt is considered forgiven"
A debt can be "forgiven" only if the creditor explicitly says so.
IF there are statutes of limitations - "IF" because in some countries some debts never expire - the only difference it makes is that the debt is no longer enforceable through courts. But it's STILL an existing debt, you're perfectly entitled to request payment, only you can't force the debtor to pay. All that assuming that the statutes of limitation have not been deliberately misinterpreted by the debtor.
[Edited at 2024-05-11 07:55 GMT]
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Kevin Fulton wrote:
A translation forum is really not the best venue for obtaining legal advice.
However, based on various legal translations I've performed over the years, I understand that in many jurisdictions, if a debt is not pursued over an extended period, that debt is considered forgiven. There may be other citations of EU law in addition to that provided by your former customer. Depending on how much the customer owes you, the cost of legal counsel may be greater than any potential recovery.
I partly agree that a translation forum is not the best place for getting legal advice, but there are people who have had similar experiences or exactly the same experience as the OP and we could get advice from these people, can't we? I've read numerous forums in the Money Matters section and the outcome is relatively the same. Someone comes up with a useful link related to the topic. Sometimes this useful link may solve the problem, but sometimes it may not. There may be things one can do before going straight to a lawyer for legal advice. I don't think it would hurt by first posting a topic on the forum seeking advice before consulting a lawyer, which I believe is not free.
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