| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15] > | 試譯失敗經歷 Thread poster: Kenneth Woo
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pkchan 
United States
Local time: 19:59
Member (2006)
English to Chinese
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| Stone Cutting | Apr 29, 2014 |
其實是打鑿切割，carved 一詞是用大了.
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 18:59
Chinese to English
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| Makes good sense | Apr 29, 2014 |
Nice find, Yueyin.
The same blog contains this image …
… which nicely matches up with the following description from one of the pdf files previously provided by David. 
http://www.heritageaustralia.com.au/pdfs/Heritage0909_OH%20Hobart%20Theatre.pdf The Theatre Royal is a rare example of a colonial building that continues to act the part for which it was originally cast. Its 175-year history of continued remodelling has left it a patchwork of old and new. Convict-carved sandstone lies alongside utilitarian 1970s metalwork and brick. The modern stage and red velvet seats rest above the remains of The Shades, smelling of earth, moisture and stone. A portrait of Wagner, dating from the 1911 renovations, which somehow fell into the royal box during the 1984 fire and was left completely intact, now looks over visitors entering the foyer. Without doubt it will continue to do so for many years to come.
Anyway, IMO, by now we should all have a good mental image of what this "convict-carved stone" business refers to. As I always believe, understanding the source is the first and most important step in translation. How to render it into one's native language should come naturally after that.
| | | | David Lin
United Kingdom
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Moderator of this forum | David Lin
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Moderator of this forum | Give me five, Steve! :) | Apr 29, 2014 |
wherestip wrote: Nice find, Yueyin. The same blog contains this image … … which nicely matches up with the following description from one of the pdf files previously provided by David. http://www.heritageaustralia.com.au/pdfs/Heritage0909_OH%20Hobart%20Theatre.pdf The Theatre Royal is a rare example of a colonial building that continues to act the part for which it was originally cast. Its 175-year history of continued remodelling has left it a patchwork of old and new. Convict-carved sandstone lies alongside utilitarian 1970s metalwork and brick. The modern stage and red velvet seats rest above the remains of The Shades, smelling of earth, moisture and stone. A portrait of Wagner, dating from the 1911 renovations, which somehow fell into the royal box during the 1984 fire and was left completely intact, now looks over visitors entering the foyer. Without doubt it will continue to do so for many years to come. Anyway, IMO, by now we should all have a good mental image of what this "convict-carved stone" business refers to. As I always believe, understanding the source is the first and most important step in translation. How to render it into one's native language should come naturally after that.
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David Lin
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:59
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Moderator of this forum | a different concern if you think of marketing and consumers' rights | Apr 29, 2014 |
wherestip wrote: IMO, we all have our own criteria when it comes to the quality of a translation. For me, the comprehension of a text given the context ranks higher in importance than a poor choice of words in rendering. So naturally the "convict-carved-stone" business would be more of a concern to me than not strictly differentiating between a circus versus an acrobatic troupe. But again I repeat, that's just me. ... [Edited at 2014-04-28 17:41 GMT]
Just to recap, I would think to translate an acrobatic troupe 杂技团 into a circus 马戏团 is a rather serious mistake from the marketing and consumers' law point of view. What happen if the audience complain and ask for refund after seeing only men and women flying around without any horses, lions, tigers or elephants. And not even monkeys were around. Parents and kids alike were not happy because they were misled by the promotional brochure as the programme was advertised as 马戏团 but what they got was only '人' 戏团 ：） The company will say 'No we advertised as only an acrobatic troupe." Then they found out it was the Chinese translation error that caused the misleading information.
Who's to blame then?
Relatively speaking whether the theatre was carved or built with stones cut by convicts is a minor error.
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 18:59
Chinese to English
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| From a business point of view | Apr 29, 2014 |
David Lin wrote: wherestip wrote: IMO, we all have our own criteria when it comes to the quality of a translation. For me, the comprehension of a text given the context ranks higher in importance than a poor choice of words in rendering. So naturally the "convict-carved-stone" business would be more of a concern to me than not strictly differentiating between a circus versus an acrobatic troupe. But again I repeat, that's just me. ... Just to recap, I would think to translate an acrobatic troupe 杂技团 into a circus 马戏团 is a rather serious mistake from the marketing and consumers' law point of view. What happen if the audience complain and ask for refund after seeing only men and women flying around without any horses, lions, tigers or elephants. And not even monkeys were around. Parents and kids alike were not happy because they were misled by the promotional brochure as the programme was advertised as 马戏团 but what they got was only '人' 戏团 ：） The company will say 'No we advertised as only an acrobatic troupe." Then they found out it was the Chinese translation error that caused the misleading information. Who's to blame then? Relatively speaking whether the theatre was carved or built with stones cut by convicts is a minor error.
I agree with you there, David. I was talking more from a perspective of purely grading a language test with no concern about any other factors. 
Incidentally, did you watch their act in that YouTube clip? I'd ask for a refund regardless.
Just joking.
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 18:59
Chinese to English
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| Same article | Apr 29, 2014 |
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 18:59
English to Chinese
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| Exactly the same | Apr 29, 2014 |
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David Lin
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:59
Member (2013)
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Moderator of this forum | Roman columns and others on the front of the theatre are carvings | Apr 29, 2014 |
wherestip wrote: David Lin wrote: wherestip wrote: IMO, we all have our own criteria when it comes to the quality of a translation. For me, the comprehension of a text given the context ranks higher in importance than a poor choice of words in rendering. So naturally the "convict-carved-stone" business would be more of a concern to me than not strictly differentiating between a circus versus an acrobatic troupe. But again I repeat, that's just me. ... Just to recap, I would think to translate an acrobatic troupe 杂技团 into a circus 马戏团 is a rather serious mistake from the marketing and consumers' law point of view. What happen if the audience complain and ask for refund after seeing only men and women flying around without any horses, lions, tigers or elephants. And not even monkeys were around. Parents and kids alike were not happy because they were misled by the promotional brochure as the programme was advertised as 马戏团 but what they got was only '人' 戏团 ：） The company will say 'No we advertised as only an acrobatic troupe." Then they found out it was the Chinese translation error that caused the misleading information. Who's to blame then? Relatively speaking whether the theatre was carved or built with stones cut by convicts is a minor error. I agree with you there, David. I was talking more from a perspective of purely grading a language test with no concern about any other factors. Incidentally, did you watch their act in that YouTube clip? I'd ask for a refund regardless. Just joking.
Thanks Steve. As Reviewer I was asked to take business factors into consideration especially for marketing pieces.
I've seen the video clip of their act. It's no comparison to what China, Russia or some Eastern European gymnasts (and the US's in recent years) could offer. Gymnastic is never a top sport for the Aussies. Swimming (and diving and Rugby) is. And of course their famous BBQ with beef, lamb and beers and the many sea foods. To enjoy all this is my favourite when visiting Sydney, Melbourne and Cairns apart from the extremely pleasant sunny weather.
By the way, looking again at the blog "On the Convict Trail" you/Ysun posted, I noticed the six Roman columns in the front of the theatre plus the decorative pattern that is parallel with the name "Theatre Royal" are exactly what we call carvings that require certain skills of the masons. See the link below about carving Roman pillars.
ttp://www.cnstatue.com/index.php/product/index/stone%20column.html
Having said that, I still accept Philhand's initial translation because who would cut the sandstones from the quarries in Hobart and shape them for the theatre in the mid-19th Century. The convicts themselves as a form of physical discipline! I believe some of them did the carvings on the front of the theatre as well like they did for Ross Bridge.
"On the Convict Trail" has this description:
"Even more amazingly it had taken only fifty-eight weeks - from 29 May 1835 to 14 July 1836 - to carve the 186 arch stones....The feature which sets this bridge apart from its contemporaries is the series of carvings on the arches. There are 186 carvings in all, 31 over the top of each arch. "
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 18:59
Chinese to English
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| The most likely scenario | Apr 29, 2014 |
David Lin wrote:
Having said that, I still accept Philhand's initial translation because who would cut the sandstones from the quarries in Hobart and shape them for the theatre in the mid-19th Century. The convicts themselves as a form of physical discipline! I believe some of them did the carvings on the front of the theatre as well like they did for Ross Bridge.
David,
I agree. Phil's interpretation and translation are definitely still correct. In all likelihood, the stone-carving activity would have been carried out at the sandstone quarries at the time. Then the finished product would have been transported to the building site of the theater.
| | | | Fargoer
Canada
Local time: 17:59
English to Chinese
wherestip wrote: Fargoer wrote: wherestip wrote:
Well, 拷貝 used to be only a noun used in the movie industry, now that I think more about it.
七十年代在印刷行业听到过“拷贝纸”的说法，指印制多联发票的薄纸。 俗话叫 “踏蓝纸” 的那种复印薄纸吗？ 我在国内那时还没听说过。 如今我没听说过的 中文词汇 可是数不胜数了。 ... Fargoer, 你 七十年代就在印刷业工作，看来资历也很深了。 你中文造诣很深的，看得出来。 ...
谢谢，wherestip! 您说的“踏蓝纸”是“carbon paper”吧？ 也有人写做“拓蓝纸”。我们小时候叫它“印蓝纸”。:)
但我上一贴说的不是这种纸。“拷贝纸 ”是印制发票用的很薄、质地很好的纸。“拓蓝纸”就是夹在上下两张拷贝纸之间进行复写的。
“拷贝纸”这个词的出现应该是比较早的。我估计是四十年代以前产生的。因为四九年以后由于与外部联系基本中断，创造新译名的工作也基本中断。“的确良”之类的新词，是七十年代末改革开放后才出现的。很多人不知道“拷贝纸”为何物，是因为它是个工业技术术语而不是日常用语。
但“拷贝纸”的来源我始终想不明白。英文“copypaper" 和 ”copying paper “好像都不是这种纸。
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 18:59
Chinese to English
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| carbon paper | Apr 30, 2014 |
Fargoer wrote: wherestip wrote: Fargoer wrote: wherestip wrote:
Well, 拷貝 used to be only a noun used in the movie industry, now that I think more about it.
七十年代在印刷行业听到过“拷贝纸”的说法，指印制多联发票的薄纸。 俗话叫 “踏蓝纸” 的那种复印薄纸吗？ 我在国内那时还没听说过。 如今我没听说过的 中文词汇 可是数不胜数了。 ... Fargoer, 你 七十年代就在印刷业工作，看来资历也很深了。 你中文造诣很深的，看得出来。 ... 谢谢，wherestip! 您说的“踏蓝纸”是“carbon paper”吧？ 也有人写做“拓蓝纸”。我们小时候叫它“印蓝纸”。:) 但我上一贴说的不是这种纸。“拷贝纸 ”是印制发票用的很薄、质地很好的纸。“拓蓝纸”就是夹在上下两张拷贝纸之间进行复写的。 “拷贝纸”这个词的出现应该是比较早的。我估计是四十年代以前产生的。因为四九年以后由于与外部联系基本中断，创造新译名的工作也基本中断。“的确良”之类的新词，是七十年代末改革开放后才出现的。很多人不知道“拷贝纸”为何物，是因为它是个工业技术术语而不是日常用语。 但“拷贝纸”的来源我始终想不明白。英文“copypaper" 和 ”copying paper “好像都不是这种纸。
Fargoer,
谢谢纠正。 我都不知 “拓蓝纸” 的 "拓" 怎么写呢。 网上找了一下找不到， 干脆就用了个白字。 ...
查了一下，这个字 "开拓" 念 tuò , "拓印" 念 tà .
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David Lin
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:59
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Moderator of this forum
wherestip wrote: Fargoer wrote: wherestip wrote: Fargoer wrote: wherestip wrote:
Well, 拷貝 used to be only a noun used in the movie industry, now that I think more about it.
七十年代在印刷行业听到过“拷贝纸”的说法，指印制多联发票的薄纸。 俗话叫 “踏蓝纸” 的那种复印薄纸吗？ 我在国内那时还没听说过。 如今我没听说过的 中文词汇 可是数不胜数了。 ... Fargoer, 你 七十年代就在印刷业工作，看来资历也很深了。 你中文造诣很深的，看得出来。 ... 谢谢，wherestip! 您说的“踏蓝纸”是“carbon paper”吧？ 也有人写做“拓蓝纸”。我们小时候叫它“印蓝纸”。:) 但我上一贴说的不是这种纸。“拷贝纸 ”是印制发票用的很薄、质地很好的纸。“拓蓝纸”就是夹在上下两张拷贝纸之间进行复写的。 “拷贝纸”这个词的出现应该是比较早的。我估计是四十年代以前产生的。因为四九年以后由于与外部联系基本中断，创造新译名的工作也基本中断。“的确良”之类的新词，是七十年代末改革开放后才出现的。很多人不知道“拷贝纸”为何物，是因为它是个工业技术术语而不是日常用语。 但“拷贝纸”的来源我始终想不明白。英文“copypaper" 和 ”copying paper “好像都不是这种纸。 Fargoer, 谢谢纠正。 我都不知 “拓蓝纸” 的 "拓" 怎么写呢。 网上找了一下找不到， 干脆就用了个白字。 ... 查了一下，这个字 "开拓" 念 tuò , "拓印" 念 tà .
拷贝纸，是一种生产难度相当高的高级文化工业用纸，该产品的技术特性主要为：具有较高的物理强度，优良的均匀度及透明度，及良好的表面性质，细腻、平整、光滑、无泡泡沙、良好的适印性.
怎样理解判断是否是一张真正优良的拷贝纸？其实很简单，第一检查其外观是否平整、细腻，均一的透光性（即匀度）；第二检查其物理强度性能，表明撕裂度高，表明该张拷贝纸的透明度越高，表明其品质越高。通常优良的拷贝纸，以17g/m2的拷贝纸为例，通常可覆盖达到6-8层，极其优良的达到12层。所以，叫做仿拷贝纸，实则为薄页纸。
这个链结有详细介绍。
http://baike.baidu.com/view/235271.htm
| | | | David Lin
United Kingdom
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Moderator of this forum
QHE wrote: QHE wrote: !:-)! wherestip wrote: Good discussion, guys. While we're at it, I'd like to walk back a popular myth I unintentionally repeated in passing. You know, " walk back"... , " myth" ... , Get it? ... Steve, you see, within the given atmosphere, I have to shield the smiley ! ! Plus, it makes me smile while “walking” back (& forth) for the “myth”. P.S., 还是感觉 “myth” 译为“迷思”很适合原意, 不过正如 David 说的，普遍接受是个时间问题。 不知当初” 摩登, 芭蕾,卡通, 拷貝, 邏輯, 咖啡, 可樂, 香檳, 巧克力, 阿斯匹林, 麥克風, 沙發, 乒乓, 夾克, 摩托車, 拜拜...” 都需要了多久才入乡随俗的。
可能 ‘当时’ 也会有些人以为：
摩登 ＝ 摩僧（再）登陆（中国）
芭蕾 ＝ 芭蕉花蕾
卡通 ＝ 卡车通道
拷贝 ＝ 烤饼型贝殼
逻辑 ＝ （公安）巡逻报告专辑
咖啡 ＝ 咖里味吗啡 （有些病人较喜欢）
可乐 ＝ （可能因）太快乐变堕落
香槟 ＝ 香蕉加槟榔一起吃 （会好味一点吗？）
巧克力 ＝ 碰巧练到克服苦闷的神力
阿斯匹林 ＝ 阿尔比斯山无可匹敌的森林
麦克风 ＝ 来自麦田无法克制的大风
沙发 ＝ 因沙漠引发的危机
乒乓 ＝ 你写错字了，应该是 ‘兵’，将两个字重叠合并才对。
夹克 ＝ 夹著大腿暂时克服去厕所的急需
摩托车 ＝ 有按摩承托手部功能的缝衣车
拜拜 ＝ 拜天拜地（要结婚了吗？－ 四目交投殷切地问）
－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－
一笑。；）
[Edited at 2014-04-30 18:07 GMT]
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 18:59
Chinese to English
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| Vellum paper? | Apr 30, 2014 |
David Lin wrote: 拷贝纸，是一种生产难度相当高的高级文化工业用纸，该产品的技术特性主要为：具有较高的物理强度，优良的均匀度及透明度，及良好的表面性质，细腻、平整、光滑、无泡泡沙、良好的适印性. 怎样理解判断是否是一张真正优良的拷贝纸？其实很简单，第一检查其外观是否平整、细腻，均一的透光性（即匀度）；第二检查其物理强度性能，表明撕裂度高，表明该张拷贝纸的透明度越高，表明其品质越高。通常优良的拷贝纸，以17g/m2的拷贝纸为例，通常可覆盖达到6-8层，极其优良的达到12层。所以，叫做仿拷贝纸，实则为薄页纸。 这个链结有详细介绍。 http://baike.baidu.com/view/235271.htm
Thanks, David.
Glassine paper? High quality tissue paper? Transparent tracing paper? Translucent vellum paper?
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