| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15] > | 試譯失敗經歷 Thread poster: Kenneth Woo
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ysun 
United States
Local time: 16:50
English to Chinese
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Steve,
我早就看到你在第5页上提供的链接和引文。不过，不同的人也许会从不同的角度、不同的重点去阅读这段文字。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_carving
我同意你的意见，“walls of convicts-carved stone” 只是为了衬托剧院的悠久历史。所以，究竟石块是切出来的，还是雕出来的，无关紧要。况且，当原文意思模棱两可时，翻译没有义务澄清原意。有时，不适当的澄清反而会导致错误。 因此我认为，不必拘泥于对 carved 一词的 literal translation。
其实我的观点主要是具体问题要具体分析。不要以点代面，推出绝对化的结论。
[Edited at 2014-04-28 23:25 GMT]
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 16:50
Chinese to English
+ ...
翻译社原译: "围墙由罪犯雕琢的石头砌成".
Anyway, you guys are probably thinking I'm just a Monday-morning quarterback or something. But "stone blocks hewn by convicts" was indeed the way I interpreted the meaning of "convict-carved stone" on first read. If I were taking an E->C qualifying test that had a time limit, “犯人采凿的石块” is the Chinese I would have dashed down in a hurry.
Since we're on the topic, another comprehension error I wo... See more 翻译社原译: "围墙由罪犯雕琢的石头砌成".
Anyway, you guys are probably thinking I'm just a Monday-morning quarterback or something. But "stone blocks hewn by convicts" was indeed the way I interpreted the meaning of "convict-carved stone" on first read. If I were taking an E->C qualifying test that had a time limit, “犯人采凿的石块” is the Chinese I would have dashed down in a hurry.
Since we're on the topic, another comprehension error I would like to point out is: “围墙”(wrong) is not the same thing as "外墙"(correct). I'm sure many people noticed that detail already.
[Edited at 2014-04-29 01:43 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 16:50
Chinese to English
+ ...
| Agree very much | Apr 28, 2014 |
ysun wrote:
...
其实我的观点主要是具体问题要具体分析。不要以点带面，推出绝对化的结论。
I totally agree with you. And I clearly understood what you were saying a couple of days ago.
IMHO, Phil's best response was the post at the top of the page of page 5. It wasn't until Fargoer started to question him that his arguments became a little vulnerable, so to speak. And with this, I mean no disparagement to Phil - none whatsoever.
This is just one of my observations; it might be total fallacy, but I'm going to say it anyway: In many of our discussions, the more one explains and debates, the more one is liable to say something that is not very airtight that could stand up to scrutiny.
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 16:50
English to Chinese
+ ...
wherestip wrote: "围墙由罪犯雕琢的石头砌成". Anyway, you guys are probably thinking I'm just a Monday-morning quarterback or something. But that was indeed the way I interpreted the meaning of "convict-carved-stone" on first read. And if I were taking an E->C qualifying test with a time limit, “犯人采凿的石块” is the Chinese I would have dashed down in a hurry. Since we're on the topic, another comprehension error I would like to point out is: “围墙” is not the same thing as "外墙". I'm sure many people noticed that detail already. [Edited at 2014-04-28 21:51 GMT]
Steve,
我同意你的意见和译法。在那个年代，这些石块多半就是用凿子一锤一锤凿出来的，而不是切出来的。不过，“采”字似应略去，因为原文没有包括“开采”。也有可能石块不是由罪犯开采的。另外，外墙与围墙确实不是一回事。我上面说过，当原文意思模棱两可时，翻译没有义务澄清原意。有时，不适当的澄清反而会导致错误。
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 16:50
Chinese to English
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ysun wrote: wherestip wrote: "围墙由罪犯雕琢的石头砌成". Anyway, you guys are probably thinking I'm just a Monday-morning quarterback or something. But that was indeed the way I interpreted the meaning of "convict-carved-stone" on first read. And if I were taking an E->C qualifying test with a time limit, “犯人采凿的石块” is the Chinese I would have dashed down in a hurry. Since we're on the topic, another comprehension error I would like to point out is: “围墙” is not the same thing as "外墙". I'm sure many people noticed that detail already. Steve, 我同意你的意见和译法。在那个年代，这些石块多半就是用凿子一锤一锤凿出来的，而不是切出来的。不过，“采”字似应略去，因为原文没有包括“开采”。也有可能石块不是由罪犯开采的。另外，外墙与围墙确实不是一回事。我上面说过，当原文意思模棱两可时，翻译没有义务澄清原意。有时，不适当的澄清反而会导致错误。
Yueyin,
I agree. 打凿出的石块 更是无懈可击。 ...
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 16:50
English to Chinese
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| QHE
United States
Local time: 17:50
English to Chinese
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| Debunking: !:-)! | Apr 29, 2014 |
QHE wrote: !:-)! wherestip wrote: Good discussion, guys. While we're at it, I'd like to walk back a popular myth I unintentionally repeated in passing. You know, " walk back"... , " myth" ... , Get it? ...
Steve, you see, within the given atmosphere, I have to shield the smiley ! !
Plus, it makes me smile while “walking” back (& forth) for the “myth”.
P.S., 还是感觉 “myth” 译为“迷思”很适合原意, 不过正如 David 说的，普遍接受是个时间问题。
不知当初” 摩登, 芭蕾,卡通, 拷貝, 邏輯, 咖啡, 可樂, 香檳, 巧克力, 阿斯匹林, 麥克風, 沙發, 乒乓, 夾克, 摩托車, 拜拜...” 都需要了多久才入乡随俗的。
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 16:50
Chinese to English
+ ...
QHE wrote:
...
P.S., 还是感觉 “myth” 译为“迷思”很适合原意, 不过正如 David 说的，普遍接受是个时间问题。
不知当初” 摩登, 芭蕾,卡通, 拷貝, 邏輯, 咖啡, 可樂, 香檳, 巧克力, 阿斯匹林, 麥克風, 沙發, 乒乓, 夾克, 摩托車, 拜拜...” 都需要了多久才入乡随俗的。
I wouldn't be surprised if “迷思” eventually gained acceptance either.
Of all the examples you listed, 拜拜 is the only one post-my time living in China. All the rest were already in use even before I arrived in China, I believe.
Well, 拷貝 used to be only a noun used in the movie industry, now that I think more about it.
[Edited at 2014-04-29 03:36 GMT]
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Fargoer
Canada
Local time: 15:50
English to Chinese
wherestip wrote: ysun wrote: wherestip wrote: "围墙由罪犯雕琢的石头砌成". Anyway, you guys are probably thinking I'm just a Monday-morning quarterback or something. But that was indeed the way I interpreted the meaning of "convict-carved-stone" on first read. And if I were taking an E->C qualifying test with a time limit, “犯人采凿的石块” is the Chinese I would have dashed down in a hurry. Since we're on the topic, another comprehension error I would like to point out is: “围墙” is not the same thing as "外墙". I'm sure many people noticed that detail already. Steve, 我同意你的意见和译法。在那个年代，这些石块多半就是用凿子一锤一锤凿出来的，而不是切出来的。不过，“采”字似应略去，因为原文没有包括“开采”。也有可能石块不是由罪犯开采的。另外，外墙与围墙确实不是一回事。我上面说过，当原文意思模棱两可时，翻译没有义务澄清原意。有时，不适当的澄清反而会导致错误。 Yueyin, I agree. 打凿出的石块 更是无懈可击。 ...
“凿制的石块”？
| | | | Fargoer
Canada
Local time: 15:50
English to Chinese
wherestip wrote:
Well, 拷貝 used to be only a noun used in the movie industry, now that I think more about it.
[Edited at 2014-04-29 03:36 GMT]
七十年代在印刷行业听到过“拷贝纸”的说法，指印制多联发票的薄纸。
| | | | Kenneth Woo
China
Local time: 05:50
English to Chinese
TOPIC STARTER
ysun wrote: Kenneth Woo wrote: Zhoudan wrote:
我一般把做research后仍拿不准的地方列成一张单子，让PM向客户确认一下到底是什么意思。通常客户都会回答的，不会说我水平低。 我以前也這麼想過，不過一直沒付諸實踐。下次試試。:D 我不能确定在这种试译情况下，客户是否肯回答你的疑问。但在实际工作中，确实应该去问。有些客户很欢迎这样做，也很配合，会去问最终客户。但有的最终客户会这样回答： Translate the text "as is"! 因为在很多情况下，经办人员是无权解释原文的（我们问的问题，往往涉及原文的错误，而不是自己理解不了的问题）。不过，如果你不问，那就是你自己的事。如果你问了而客户不答，那就是他们的事情了。 [Edited at 2014-04-28 18:25 GMT] ysun wrote: Kenneth Woo wrote:
老孫，雖然「標準譯文」洋相百出，不堪卒讀，但我的譯文也有失當之處，一是把Gravity and Other Myths誤譯為「馬戲團」，二是把「carved」譯成了有雕紋的。短短數行文字，兩處誤譯，還是應時時引以自警。 小吴： 把杂技团称为马戏团，这是较大的失误。但依我之见，在没有足够上下文的情况下，把 carved 译成“有雕纹的”不能算错，反之亦然。毕竟我们没去实地考察过。判断试卷是否合格，应该看整体水平。 试卷是否通过，跟判卷者的水平也有很大关系。一两次失败，说明不了多少问题，但可从中吸取经验教训。
老孫，謝謝提點。我瀏覽proz，在您的帖子中學了很多知識。:D
[Edited at 2014-04-29 10:57 GMT]
| | | | Kenneth Woo
China
Local time: 05:50
English to Chinese
TOPIC STARTER
Fargoer wrote: Kenneth Woo wrote:
不論判官是譯社雇員，還是自由翻譯，其職業操守應該相差不大，只是自由翻譯判官和我們有利益衝突，打分之時違心的概率高點兒。 自由翻译在市场上，不能不服从市场规律。翻译又是求真的活动，又要尊重学术标准。所谓职业操守其实就是求真与求利之间的平衡点。守住自己的底线，其他的看透了就不会太在意。
我一向也是這麼認為的。總之，守住自己的底線就行。
jyuan_us wrote: Kenneth Woo wrote:
這麼看來，審稿者未必就是譯社雇員，也可能跟我們一樣，是自由翻譯。 全都是包給自由譯者做有的判卷人可能还不如你做得好
可能。歸根結底是因為進翻譯這行門檻太低。話說回來，要是門檻高我也進不了。
David Lin wrote: Kenneth Woo wrote: David Lin wrote: ysun wrote: Kenneth Woo wrote:
這麼看來，審稿者未必就是譯社雇員，也可能跟我們一樣，是自由翻譯。 你那份试卷，很可能就是那位“物理剧院”的翻译判的。所以我前面说，你不要对应试结果太在意。 林大哥，你真幽默。我想你根本就不會考慮給那樣的譯社做事的。 可能時差問題，我還未有澳洲客戶。：） 原文可能沒有審譯好就刊登出來，才會出現 ‘物理劇院’ 的漏洞。和我之前的一個關於 ’老新聞‘ old news 或老椅子 old chair 的笑話有 ’異曲同工‘ 之妙。不過，話説回來， phyiscal theatre 也不是一種很為人熟知的藝術，我們做翻譯的一不小心 － 想當然 take it for granted 時，就會犯錯。尤其是前文句子已經有 gravity 這個和物理學有關的詞語，好容易產生 ’微妙‘ 卻是錯誤的 ‘物理’ 聯想。 至於將雜技團誤譯為馬戲團的問題，現代科技已經將審譯工作規範化／制度化。我曾經被要求使用扣分法進行審譯工作。扣分系統將翻譯錯誤分類為 ‘非常嚴重’、‘嚴重’、‘普通錯誤’、‘無關痛癢的錯誤’ 等。只要總分被扣到低於客戶規定標準時，系統即顯示紅色 ＝ failed。其中更須在文法、詞語、句子構造等分類上評分。團名譯錯最多只是一個錯誤，是否 ‘雕刻’ 則只能夠是 ‘無關痛癢的錯誤’ ，或不算錯誤，因為經搜尋後沒有確實證據證明。加上澳洲英語的意思 convict-carved 也有採切、建築和雕刻的含義，所以個人認為不足以構成任何嚴重錯誤。 之前我在 kudoz 解答了一個關於 Australian-compliance 的詞語問題，和 convict-carved 差不多的澳洲英語語法，卻是指澳洲金融條例，而不是字面的澳洲人和澳洲的意思。 總之，種種問題，有時候需要 ‘自我幽默’ 一番 、學習了，然後 move on. 不然一個問題呆在腦子／身體里太久，會引起疾病。
哈哈，當時看到他把我的譯文那樣一頓狠批，確實不大高興，不過這事我早就沒放在心上了。人生苦短，天天保持心情愉快才是最重要的。:D
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 16:50
Chinese to English
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Fargoer wrote: wherestip wrote:
Well, 拷貝 used to be only a noun used in the movie industry, now that I think more about it.
七十年代在印刷行业听到过“拷贝纸”的说法，指印制多联发票的薄纸。
俗话叫 “踏蓝纸” 的那种复印薄纸吗？ 我在国内那时还没听说过。
如今我没听说过的 中文词汇 可是数不胜数了。 ...
Fargoer, 你 七十年代就在印刷业工作，看来资历也很深了。 你中文造诣很深的，看得出来。 ...
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 16:50
English to Chinese
+ ...
Kenneth Woo wrote:
老孫，謝謝提點。我瀏覽proz，在您的帖子中學了很多知識。:D
我们相互学习。
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 16:50
English to Chinese
+ ...
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