Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Russian term or phrase:
Что со мной делают?
English translation:
What is done to me?
Added to glossary by
Konstantin Krasnov
Apr 17, 2003 09:10
21 yrs ago
Russian term
Вопрос по грамматике: Что со мной делают?
Russian to English
Art/Literary
Linguistics
Как то, разглядывая таблицы спряжения глагола to ask из книги Израилевич&Качалова, (I ask, He asks, Do I ask, ..., I am asked, Am I asked, ...) решил дополнить её - подписать туда не только YesNo questions, но и специальные вопросы: When/Why/When do I ask?, What do I do?, Who asks? Естественно, для вопроса "Что я делаю" ask в вопросе должен отсутствовать, т.к. это вопрошающий и не знает. Но в Passive вопросы будут такими: When/Why/When am I asked?
Who is asked? ,
а вот вопрос о глаголе в форме Passive ("Что со мной делают?") должен бы выглядеть так:
What am I done?
но для меня это звучит как-то странно (но может быть это просто ни разу мне не встречалость?). В своём переводе я бы, в зависимости от контекста, написал бы How am I treated?, How is the equipment maintained? etc, или употребил Active, но мучает вопрос, насколько применима форма "What am I done?" или следует употребить там другой глагол вместо Do?
Who is asked? ,
а вот вопрос о глаголе в форме Passive ("Что со мной делают?") должен бы выглядеть так:
What am I done?
но для меня это звучит как-то странно (но может быть это просто ни разу мне не встречалость?). В своём переводе я бы, в зависимости от контекста, написал бы How am I treated?, How is the equipment maintained? etc, или употребил Active, но мучает вопрос, насколько применима форма "What am I done?" или следует употребить там другой глагол вместо Do?
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +1 | см. |
Kirill Semenov
|
| 4 +7 | What do I do? What am I doing? What is being done to me? |
Jack Doughty
|
| 4 +2 | See explanation below: |
William Stein
|
| 3 +1 | What is becoming of me? |
JoeYeckley (X)
|
Change log
Apr 26, 2005 13:00: Kirill Semenov changed "Field (write-in)" from "English Crammar - Just for fun" to "(none)"
Proposed translations
+1
29 mins
Kirill Semenov
Ukraine
Ukraine
Native in Russian
Works in field
Ukraine
60+ books translated and published
Native in: Russian 
Works in: English to Russian, Russian
Related KudoZ points
:
40
Selected
см.
to do _to_ somebody vs. do something
Мне кажется, разница в том, что do по отношению к одушевленному требует предлога, в отличие от ask, которое прямо управляет, без предлога. Поэтому формула меняется:
What is done to me? What do they do to me?
Вообще же, do слишком особый предлог, чтобы вести себя, как рядовые. :)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-04-17 09:44:06 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
А прямое, без предлога, управление в форме am I done переводит `I\' в категорию чего-то неодушевленного, потому и \"не звучит\".
Кстати, даже не соответствует Вашему вопросу (\"Со мной делают\") \"I am done\" это было бы все равно что \"я сделан\".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-04-17 12:06:49 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
What am I done -- не существует, разве что теоретически. Потому что I am done -- бессмыслица.
Перевод оборота \"со мной делают\" -- \"...do to me\"
Пассивная конструкция: \"...is done to me\" Соответствующие формы вопросов: \"What is done to me\". To do не может иметь прямого одушевленного дополнения, обязателен предлог.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-04-17 12:07:33 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
И я все давал именно в Present Simple. И active и passive voice.
Мне кажется, разница в том, что do по отношению к одушевленному требует предлога, в отличие от ask, которое прямо управляет, без предлога. Поэтому формула меняется:
What is done to me? What do they do to me?
Вообще же, do слишком особый предлог, чтобы вести себя, как рядовые. :)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-04-17 09:44:06 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
А прямое, без предлога, управление в форме am I done переводит `I\' в категорию чего-то неодушевленного, потому и \"не звучит\".
Кстати, даже не соответствует Вашему вопросу (\"Со мной делают\") \"I am done\" это было бы все равно что \"я сделан\".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-04-17 12:06:49 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
What am I done -- не существует, разве что теоретически. Потому что I am done -- бессмыслица.
Перевод оборота \"со мной делают\" -- \"...do to me\"
Пассивная конструкция: \"...is done to me\" Соответствующие формы вопросов: \"What is done to me\". To do не может иметь прямого одушевленного дополнения, обязателен предлог.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-04-17 12:07:33 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
И я все давал именно в Present Simple. И active и passive voice.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Elaine Freel (X)
: В разговорной речи можно сказать "I'm done", типа, "Я -- всё" ("Я закончил"). Но там смысл абсолютно другой, конечно.
8 hrs
|
|
Элейн, страшно благодарен за то, что оценили старания. :) А то я уже в отчаянии был :) Конечно, I am done совсем другой смысл, но тут сравнение со спряжением ask
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Большое спасибо всем откликнувшимся людям, неравнодушным к английской грамматике! К сожалению, делить очки нельзя, поэтому я выберу ответ Кирилла, первым объяснившим невозможность конструкции необходимостью предлога to.
Если у кого ещё будут мнения на тему вопроса, добавляйте свои ответы, не стесняйтесь! :)
"
+7
19 mins
Jack Doughty
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
United Kingdom
Translator since 1953
Native in: English
Works in: Russian to English, German to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
28
What do I do? What am I doing? What is being done to me?
I'm not sure I understand exactly what you are asking here, but it seems to me that "Что я делаю?" could be "What do I do?" (what is my occupation?) or "What am I doing?" (either as a straight question or in dismay if you realise you're doing something stupid).
"Что со мной делают?" is "What is being done to me?" in the passive, but you would be more likely to say "What are they doing to me?" ("They" could refer to specific people or not, as the case may be).
Hope this helps.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-04-17 11:14:16 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Ask:
\"What/Why/When am I asked\" could be possible in some contexts but the form \"What/Why/When am I being asked\" is more often better.
As for why \"ask\" and \"do\" are different, maybe there is no logical reason (there often isn\'t), but it might be because \"I am done\", for instance, means \"I have finished\".
\"Do\" is a tricky verb anyway. In the WW2 radio comedy programme ITMA (It\'s That Man Again), the cleaning lady Mrs. Mopp would come in every week and say \"Can I do you now, sir?\" and this was taken as a joke.
"Что со мной делают?" is "What is being done to me?" in the passive, but you would be more likely to say "What are they doing to me?" ("They" could refer to specific people or not, as the case may be).
Hope this helps.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-04-17 11:14:16 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Ask:
\"What/Why/When am I asked\" could be possible in some contexts but the form \"What/Why/When am I being asked\" is more often better.
As for why \"ask\" and \"do\" are different, maybe there is no logical reason (there often isn\'t), but it might be because \"I am done\", for instance, means \"I have finished\".
\"Do\" is a tricky verb anyway. In the WW2 radio comedy programme ITMA (It\'s That Man Again), the cleaning lady Mrs. Mopp would come in every week and say \"Can I do you now, sir?\" and this was taken as a joke.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Kirill Semenov
: What are they doing to me? What is being done to me?"
2 mins
|
|
Thank you.
|
|
| agree |
JoeYeckley (X)
: There is an old army song that goes "Mama, Mama can't you see what the army's done to me."
57 mins
|
|
I don't know that one, though I know quite a few WW1 & WW2 army songs. Can't think of any relevant to this question though.
|
|
| agree |
alla dunbar
: What is being done to me?
1 hr
|
| agree |
Knara Law
: What is being done to me?
1 hr
|
| agree |
Gale
2 hrs
|
| agree |
Dmitry Arch
3 hrs
|
| agree |
Elaine Freel (X)
: w/"being done to me"
8 hrs
|
+1
1 hr
What is becoming of me?
What is to become of me?
What has become of me?
Jack's variant seems to best render the literal question. This is a related passive construction that may work in some contexts where the "their" identity is more obscure.
What has become of me?
Jack's variant seems to best render the literal question. This is a related passive construction that may work in some contexts where the "their" identity is more obscure.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Kirill Semenov
: true, but I guess the Asker wants to know why "ask" and "do" behave differently in passive voice
16 mins
|
|
Thanks. I think I am answering his concluding question here.
|
+2
2 hrs
William Stein
Costa Rica
Costa Rica
Native in English
Works in field
Costa Rica
Translations that read like originals
Native in: English (Variants: US, UK)
Works in: French to English, German to English, Spanish to English, and 3 more.
See explanation below:
You can't say "What am I done" because the preposition "to" is obligatory in that case. You have to say -> What is done to me? What is told to me? What is explained to me?, etc. (at least in US English)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-04-17 14:04:04 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I think the problem is that you can\'t have two subjects:
What [subject of passive sentence] is done to me [indirect object]
There are certain exceptions but I can\'t think of any rule to explain them. For example, it\'s okay to say \"What am I paid?\" or \"What was I told?\". There are also some differences between US and UK English. In the UK, you can say \"\'he gave it her\" but in the US you have to say \"he gave it to her\".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-04-17 14:10:08 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here\'s the closest I can come to a rule:
If the affirmative needs \"to\", the question needs \"to\":
Somebody paid me. > What was I paid?
Somebody asked me > What was I asked?
Somebody did something TO me > What was done TO me.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-04-17 14:04:04 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I think the problem is that you can\'t have two subjects:
What [subject of passive sentence] is done to me [indirect object]
There are certain exceptions but I can\'t think of any rule to explain them. For example, it\'s okay to say \"What am I paid?\" or \"What was I told?\". There are also some differences between US and UK English. In the UK, you can say \"\'he gave it her\" but in the US you have to say \"he gave it to her\".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-04-17 14:10:08 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here\'s the closest I can come to a rule:
If the affirmative needs \"to\", the question needs \"to\":
Somebody paid me. > What was I paid?
Somebody asked me > What was I asked?
Somebody did something TO me > What was done TO me.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Kirill Semenov
: exactly, and that's what I have been trying to explain (above): "to do smth" vs. "to do to somebody" Inanimate vs. animate
22 mins
|
|
I'll have some coffee and think about, Kirill, I'm still "inanimate" at this time of the morning.
|
|
| agree |
Jack Doughty
: But you can "do somebody" in the sense of swindling them. The biblical advice "Do unto others as you would have others do until you" is sometimes shortened (altering its meaning completely) to "Do others, or they'll do you."
1 hr
|
|
I think to "do somebody" is a 2-letter word substituted for a 4-letter word, though.
|
Discussion