| Teemakohased leheküljed: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Mud slinging on Kudoz questions Vestluse postitaja: Berni Armstrong
|
|---|
| Wouldn't that further complicate matters? | May 1, 2002 |
Quote:
On 2002-04-30 23:36, AbacusTrans wrote:
Another thing: we should be able to delete our messages. You post something in anger, but you can\'t delete it anymore (you can delete the text body, but the entry will remain). The same goes for KudoZ grades (we can hide our answers, but not our comments/grades). By deleting such in-the-heat-of-the-moment comments, you could possibly prevent a \"conflagration\".
... See more Quote:
On 2002-04-30 23:36, AbacusTrans wrote:
Another thing: we should be able to delete our messages. You post something in anger, but you can\'t delete it anymore (you can delete the text body, but the entry will remain). The same goes for KudoZ grades (we can hide our answers, but not our comments/grades). By deleting such in-the-heat-of-the-moment comments, you could possibly prevent a \"conflagration\".
I don\'t know, Werner. Maybe it is too much to ask, but I wish we could take responsibility for our own actions and not need an \"I take it back\" function. As long as we don\'t have it, we have to learn to think twice before we click on \"send\", be it at the forums or with agrees/disagrees. If you post something and somebody else reacts, and then you hide your comment, what happens with the reaction? Wouldn\'t that person look foolish, or be forced to hide his/her comment? I\'m uncomfortable enough already with the \"add a comment\" function in KudoZ: I\'ve agreed to some answers before they were modified by comments, and there\'s nothing I can do if I disagree with the comments... Let\'s try and not fix something else that ain\'t broken... especially if we can choose to control our reactions better instead.
Andrea ▲ Collapse
| | | | Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO) (X)
Local time: 22:22
saksa - inglise
+ ...
| That's a good point | May 1, 2002 |
[quote]
On 2002-05-01 02:32, AIM wrote:
Quote:
I don\'t know, Werner. Maybe it is too much to ask, but I wish we could take responsibility for our own actions and not need an \"I take it back\" function. As long as we don\'t have it, we have to learn to think twice before we click on \"send\", be it at the forums or with agrees/disagrees. If you post something and somebody else reacts, and then you hide your comment, what happens with the reaction? Wouldn\'t that person look foolish, or be forced to hide his/her comment? I\'m uncomfortable enough already with the \"add a comment\" function in KudoZ: I\'ve agreed to some answers before they were modified by comments, and there\'s nothing I can do if I disagree with the comments... Let\'s try and not fix something else that ain\'t broken... especially if we can choose to control our reactions better instead.
Andrea
You got something there. Maybe we should just leave things the way they are, but increase the number of moderators (including new moderators for monolingual subcommunities). Henry has already indicated that he will install a feature for moderators to delete agree/neutral/disagree comments (moderators could then eliminate any responses as well). Time will tell, I suppose.
| | | | RHELLER
Ameerika Ühendriigid
Local time: 20:22
prantsuse - inglise
+ ...
| eliminate points | May 1, 2002 |
Dear Colleagues:
It seems that the point system is at the heart of most of the problems here. Some people think they don\'t get enough points, or that points were awarded incorrectly, or the points should have been split.
Perhaps we could envisage this website without points. Without jealousy, spiteful remarks and criticism.
Just forums, helpful suggestions (not graded), and occasional job offers.
Does that sou... See more Dear Colleagues:
It seems that the point system is at the heart of most of the problems here. Some people think they don\'t get enough points, or that points were awarded incorrectly, or the points should have been split.
Perhaps we could envisage this website without points. Without jealousy, spiteful remarks and criticism.
Just forums, helpful suggestions (not graded), and occasional job offers.
Does that sound too peaceful?
Rita
[addsig] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | yes to Rita, but | May 4, 2002 |
I have seen mudslinging of epic proportions, fights, competition even in mailinglists where mutual help does not gain anybody any point.
I tend to believe that it\'s human nature and the nature of the medium, not the points.
paola l m
| | |
|
|
|
Parrot 
Hispaania
Local time: 04:22
hispaania - inglise
+ ...
| Deleting/revising/qualifying agrees & disagrees | May 4, 2002 |
It has happened to me that I agreed too fast and couldn\'t go back and qualify it or offer some suggestion for improvement. In which case I\'ve had to enter another \"answer\" which was really a non-answer because I was in agreement with someone else. Likewise, I have disagreed with a half-baked explanation that I thought needed some improvement. So I thought Werner had something there, but Andrea\'s right, it might be complicating things.
| | | | John Kinory (X)
Local time: 03:22
inglise - heebrea
+ ...
| yes to Paola, but | May 4, 2002 |
Quote:
On 2002-05-04 21:09, ludovici wrote:
I have seen mudslinging of epic proportions, fights, competition even in mailing lists where mutual help does not gain anybody any point.
I tend to believe that it\'s human nature and the nature of the medium, not the points.
Paola, I have seen those too. But my impression is that on Proz it has reached even greater depths. Whether the poin... See more Quote:
On 2002-05-04 21:09, ludovici wrote:
I have seen mudslinging of epic proportions, fights, competition even in mailing lists where mutual help does not gain anybody any point.
I tend to believe that it\'s human nature and the nature of the medium, not the points.
Paola, I have seen those too. But my impression is that on Proz it has reached even greater depths. Whether the points contribute to it, is a difficult question to answer. There\'s a PhD in it for someone, no doubt!
[addsig] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Comments on an incident | May 5, 2002 |
Some so-called mud slinging may not be mud slinging at all, but may be tongue in cheek or satirical in nature. In brief comments, it must be granted that \"tone\" may not transmit in written form. So I guess one key question is whether members must feel anally constrained to the straight and narrow, to pedantry and literalness, to an arid dryness, or whether we can all maintain a little detachment from comments such that we simply don\'t take them very seriously, whether we see them as humourous... See more Some so-called mud slinging may not be mud slinging at all, but may be tongue in cheek or satirical in nature. In brief comments, it must be granted that \"tone\" may not transmit in written form. So I guess one key question is whether members must feel anally constrained to the straight and narrow, to pedantry and literalness, to an arid dryness, or whether we can all maintain a little detachment from comments such that we simply don\'t take them very seriously, whether we see them as humourous or not.
Recently a question arose about the word \"tasty\" and in the replies a number of comments were issued that were unrelated to the subject. One of those comments made mention of the supposed illiteracy of North Americans (as if South Americans were all 3rd level educated Renaissance men and women).
Now, I don\'t really know (or care) if the writer was being tongue in cheek about it or deadly serious. I don\'t know if the writer was smiling as he wrote it or filled with acid indigestion. I really didn\'t care. And, as a North American myself, I really didn\'t take offense.
My response was, \"Yes, North Americans are illiterate, while Europeans are only \'concept dead\'.\" This was entirely tongue in cheek and satirical in nature. Or so I meant it to be. I confess it didn\'t really cross my mind that any North Americans present (who would undoubtedly be quite comfortably literate) would be so insecure as to fear that perhaps they were, indeed, illiterate. Nor did it occur to me that any Europeans present would be so insecure as to fear that perhaps they were, indeed, concept dead.
I knew that people present would not know if I was North American or not, so at the very worst the comment would be ambiguous. Was I attacking Americans? Or was I defensively reacting to the previous comment about American illiteracy with an attack on Europeans? At worst, I guess I would think that it would be viewed as a useless and smartass comment. At worst.
Frankly, I didn\'t think about it much at all. I thought some would smile and maybe some would roll their eyes and that was it.
Until today, when I received a rather nasty personal email from John Kinory. He interpreted my remark as \"racist\" (a rather unique usage of that particular word) and threatened the dire consequences of quashing the entire question and citing me as the reason. (Of course, if he actually quashed the question, HE would be the reason, but such logic doesn\'t usually enter in the thinking of the righteous when they are embarked on misions of \"justice\".)
Now my point has little to do with Mr. Kinory as an individual, but rather with us all as a whole. It can be difficult to discern if something actually is mudslinging with a serious intent. I would think it preferable to maintain a degree of detachment and some common sense. To give an ambiguous intent the benefit of the doubt and leave it as an open question. To not take too seriously the antics of others.
These discussions on definitions can be rather dry. While the primary purpose (which is always adhered to) is to answer the translator\'s question, I see no harm in the little comments made when I see a little quip or side comment from time to time. As a matter of fact, I find them refreshing - in the context, which will always be the primary focus on the question posed.
I may be accused of being rather impoverished when it comes to wit, but I fail to see the great harm in that, other than that I might occasionally bore the pants off all the other readers. I think that the greater harm to us all than the occasional remark, mudslinging or not, is the danger of \"reacting\". The greatest damage to any society historically is always committed by the reactors rather than by the perpetrators.
I think we\'d all be better off overall if we just ignore those things we perceive as mudslinging and get on with our lives (which, no doubt, are difficult enough as it is without stirring up hornets\' nests in our own heads). ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mats Wiman
Rootsi
Local time: 04:22
Liige (2000)
saksa - rootsi
+ ...
In memoriam | Introduce 'Alert your moderator' mechanism | May 5, 2002 |
Dear all,
Conflagrations always start with a small fire. Small fires are easier to quench.
Therefore: Make everybody aware of the fact that there is a moderator, co-moderator or deputy moderator (for language pairs where there isn\'t one yet) by instituting a button with the text:
\"Problem with this question? Alert your moderator! (we should be just that!) Result: An eMail to the moderator.
Moderators would thus be engaged in the ev... See more Dear all,
Conflagrations always start with a small fire. Small fires are easier to quench.
Therefore: Make everybody aware of the fact that there is a moderator, co-moderator or deputy moderator (for language pairs where there isn\'t one yet) by instituting a button with the text:
\"Problem with this question? Alert your moderator! (we should be just that!) Result: An eMail to the moderator.
Moderators would thus be engaged in the everyday running of their language pairs and Henry would be relieved of the increasing number of issues popping up.
Above all: Small fires wouldn\'t grow into conflagrations
Mats
[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-05-05 10:53 ] ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Terence wrote:
Until today, when I received a rather nasty personal email from John Kinory. He interpreted my remark as \"racist\" (a rather unique usage of that particular word) and threatened the dire consequences of quashing the entire question and citing me as the reason. (Of course, if he actually quashed the question, HE would be the reason, but such logic doesn\'t usually enter in the thinking of the righteous when they are embarked on misions of \"justice\".)
... See more Terence wrote:
Until today, when I received a rather nasty personal email from John Kinory. He interpreted my remark as \"racist\" (a rather unique usage of that particular word) and threatened the dire consequences of quashing the entire question and citing me as the reason. (Of course, if he actually quashed the question, HE would be the reason, but such logic doesn\'t usually enter in the thinking of the righteous when they are embarked on misions of \"justice\".)
Now my point has little to do with Mr. Kinory as an individual, but rather with us all as a whole. It can be difficult to discern if something actually is mudslinging with a serious intent. I would think it preferable to maintain a degree of detachment and some common sense. To give an ambiguous intent the benefit of the doubt and leave it as an open question. To not take too seriously the antics of others.
Points well made, Terence. The well has been poisoned with constant provocations and slights to the dignity of others. Disrespect begets disrespect and positions harden until people begin assuming only the worst in others. I also second Mats\' call for a truce. Let\'s all work together to put an end to this madness. Of course, I know that\'s easier said than done, especially considering the great cultural and personal differences that have to be overcome. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ralf Lemster
Saksamaa
Local time: 04:22
inglise - saksa
+ ...
| Moderator link exists | May 6, 2002 |
Hi Mats,
ProZ introduced a moderator link not too long ago - all you need to do is to click on the link \"Moderator for this pair\", which is shown at the bottom of each question (provided there is a moderator for this pair).
| | | | Mats Wiman
Rootsi
Local time: 04:22
Liige (2000)
saksa - rootsi
+ ...
In memoriam | Moderator link needs a BUTTON and clearer phrasing | May 6, 2002 |
Quote:
On 2002-05-06 06:00, Lemster wrote:
Hi Mats,
ProZ introduced a moderator link not too long ago - all you need to do is to click on the link \"Moderator for this pair\", which is shown at the bottom of each question (provided there is a moderator for this pair).
I know Ralf, but I think it should be more prominent and with an admonishing text ON A BUTTON.
I also sugge... See more Quote:
On 2002-05-06 06:00, Lemster wrote:
Hi Mats,
ProZ introduced a moderator link not too long ago - all you need to do is to click on the link \"Moderator for this pair\", which is shown at the bottom of each question (provided there is a moderator for this pair).
I know Ralf, but I think it should be more prominent and with an admonishing text ON A BUTTON.
I also suggest for the third time deputy moderators for language pairs without a moderator. (I\'m ready to take on swe>eng, swe>deu for instance)
MATS
[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-05-06 08:25 ] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Endre Both
Saksamaa
Local time: 04:22
inglise - saksa
I very much agree with Terence Riley that a bit of detachment would solve a lot of problems. By ignoring the initial offensive remark instead of responding to provocation, a nice proportion of the mudslinging occasionally going on here could be avoided.
I agree that sometimes passivity would be too much to ask for or even harmful: in such cases one can always contact the persons involved, the moderators or even Proz staff directly - but there is no need to carry on in public... See more I very much agree with Terence Riley that a bit of detachment would solve a lot of problems. By ignoring the initial offensive remark instead of responding to provocation, a nice proportion of the mudslinging occasionally going on here could be avoided.
I agree that sometimes passivity would be too much to ask for or even harmful: in such cases one can always contact the persons involved, the moderators or even Proz staff directly - but there is no need to carry on in public.
As to the KudoZ points, after having collected a sufficient number of them to indicate that I\'m not exclusively on the receiving end, I don\'t really care about them. I prefer a short thankyou note - possibly including other contributors - to 4 points awarded by an asker who can\'t be bothered to hit a few keys to say \"thanks\".
What does irritate me (and probably many others) occasionally, is when the wrong answer gets credit or when valuable contributions go unnoticed - unfortunately, this wouldn\'t change if we gave up the points system.
However, I\'d be really curious to know to what extent the current rush to answer even the most ridiculous questions and even if you don\'t know the first thing about the subject would abate if there were no points to get. A test run without points would be fun  ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO) (X)
Local time: 22:22
saksa - inglise
+ ...
Quote:
On 2002-05-05 10:49, MatsWiman wrote:
Dear all,
Conflagrations always start with a small fire. Small fires are easier to quench.
Therefore: Make everybody aware of the fact that there is a moderator, co-moderator or deputy moderator (for language pairs where there isn\'t one yet) by instituting a button with the text:
\"Problem with this question? Alert your moderator! (we should be
... See more Quote:
On 2002-05-05 10:49, MatsWiman wrote:
Dear all,
Conflagrations always start with a small fire. Small fires are easier to quench.
Therefore: Make everybody aware of the fact that there is a moderator, co-moderator or deputy moderator (for language pairs where there isn\'t one yet) by instituting a button with the text:
\"Problem with this question? Alert your moderator! (we should be just that!) Result: An eMail to the moderator.
Moderators would thus be engaged in the everyday running of their language pairs and Henry would be relieved of the increasing number of issues popping up.
Above all: Small fires wouldn\'t grow into conflagrations
Mats
[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-05-05 10:53 ]
I also agree with your idea of \"deputy moderators\". However, these should be \"new\" people, rather than existing moderators. After all, we have heard enough complaints from moderators, saying that they don\'t have enough time to deal with their own subcommunities. So, if you hand even more responsibilities to existing moderators, you\'ll actually make things worse. ▲ Collapse
| | | | ivw (X)
inglise - ungari
+ ...
| Thank you for your clarification | May 6, 2002 |
Quote:
Some so-called mud slinging may not be mud slinging at all, but may be tongue in cheek or satirical in nature.
Though his message was sent to me privately, I would like to say thanks to Terence Riley here, in public, for his e-mail (which, I believe, was sent to several colleagues in the ProZ community).
Points taken, Terry; no hard feelings!  ... See more Quote:
Some so-called mud slinging may not be mud slinging at all, but may be tongue in cheek or satirical in nature.
Though his message was sent to me privately, I would like to say thanks to Terence Riley here, in public, for his e-mail (which, I believe, was sent to several colleagues in the ProZ community).
Points taken, Terry; no hard feelings!
Have a nice week,
Ildiko V-Wentworth
CA ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mats Wiman
Rootsi
Local time: 04:22
Liige (2000)
saksa - rootsi
+ ...
In memoriam | Overburdened moderators should be relieved | May 7, 2002 |
Dear Werner,
I do not suggest that overburdened moderators should take on extra work.
I focused on the many language pairs that do not have a moderator at all.
The reason why I suggested myself is that I have nothing to moderate in my subcommunity (deu>swe). There are no aberrations at all and I know of several colleagues in the same situation.
Mats
| | | | | Teemakohased leheküljed: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Mud slinging on Kudoz questions | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.
More info » |
| | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
