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姐姐弟弟
Thread poster: Meixia Jordan
ysun
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豁达的气度 May 17, 2014

Meixia Jordan wrote:

wherestip wrote:

Meixia,

Thanks for your kind words and your understanding. I'm sorry for being partially responsible for messing up your thread due to circumstances.


[Edited at 2014-05-16 12:03 GMT]


Hi, there is no reason to apologize for anything. I highly appreciate your frankness.

这是一种豁达的气度。不是每个人都有他这种气度的。如果这里每个人都有这种气度,那就好了!


 
wherestip
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谢谢 May 17, 2014

Yueyin,

哪里,你实在是过奖了。 我是不太在乎说对说错的,只要态度好我就愿意与人交流。 有时我不太顾面子,直桶桶,说得也不一定对,但没有什么故意与什么人为难的。


 
Jinhang Wang
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君子之过 May 18, 2014

君子之过也,如日月之食焉;过也,人皆见之;及其更也,人皆仰之。

说起来发生这样的误会的确有客观的原因,算不上多严重的事儿。不过,还是要感谢 Steve 和 Loise 最后达成友好和解,为大家树立了一个值得效法的典范。


 
Loise
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过奖了 May 18, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:


君子之过也,如日月之食焉;过也,人皆见之;及其更也,人皆仰之。

说起来发生这样的误会的确有客观的原因,算不上多严重的事儿。不过,还是要感谢 Steve 和 Loise 最后达成友好和解,为大家树立了一个值得效法的典范。



这样说倒让我觉得羞愧了,不过是小事儿!:)


 
pkchan
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称呼“老板”或“同志”是个问题 May 18, 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOoPXhzRRg4#t=94

2014年05月16日 06:06:41来源:中国青年报

近日,广东省纪委发出关于严明党政机关工作人员之间称呼纪律的通知,指出党员干部间称呼存在庸俗化的问题。一些官员称领导为“老板”、“老大”,有的称下属为“哥们儿”、“兄弟”等,破坏�
... See more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOoPXhzRRg4#t=94

2014年05月16日 06:06:41来源:中国青年报

近日,广东省纪委发出关于严明党政机关工作人员之间称呼纪律的通知,指出党员干部间称呼存在庸俗化的问题。一些官员称领导为“老板”、“老大”,有的称下属为“哥们儿”、“兄弟”等,破坏党内民主,损害公仆形象。该省纪委要求党政机关工作人员之间一律不准使用“老板”、“老大”等庸俗称呼。
  除了官员所任职务外,官员彼此之间的称呼根据级别、亲疏的差异,会有不同的表达方式。官场“称呼学”反映了一地的官场文化,尤其在讲究礼节的东方国家,怎么称呼同僚的确兹事体大。早在1965年12月14日,中共中央就发出《关于党内同志之间的称呼问题的通知》,要求“今后对担任党内职务的所有人员,一律互称同志”;十一届三中全会公报再次强调,全会重申了毛泽东同志的一贯主张,党内一律互称同志,不要叫官衔。

  但“同志”这个称呼近年来逐渐在公众视线中隐退,官员彼此之间称呼官衔是普遍现象,当然基于现代政治管理科学,称呼官衔也无可厚非。不过官场更流行“逢长必叫,叫大不叫小”——谁都愿意在称呼中把自己头衔前面的“副”字去掉。

  此番广东省对官员之间称呼作出规范,也是注意到了官场“称呼学”对政治文化潜移默化的影响。尽管在省纪委通知中依旧提到了《关于党内同志之间的称呼问题的通知》,但是在如今逐步开放、活泼的政治环境下,回到一律称呼“同志”的年代并不现实。在2003年前后,各地党委曾下发通知,重申了“对担任党内职务的所有人员一律称同志,不称职务”的要求,但这一通知并没真正落实。公开报道的信息显示,广东这次通知也主要是为了禁止官员之间的“庸俗称呼”,并没有一刀切地禁止“同志”以外的其他称呼。

  官场“称呼学”既要体现现代政治文明有序、合理的科层制关系,又要避免庸俗和谄媚。此次广东禁止下级官员称呼上级为“老板”,在中国,很多人会对此表示认同。但是在一些国家的政治环境里,“老板”称呼可能稀松平常。比如在一些美剧中不难发现在美国各级政府中,下属常称呼上级“Boss”(老板),“老板”们也乐于接受这种他们眼中平易近人的头衔。

  语言是反映现实环境的一种表述,与其刻意局限“称呼学”,还不如从中探究现实政治中是哪些因素决定了那样的称呼。如果党政机关一把手权力过大,一手操控下属的财权和人事权,那么下级称呼其为“老板”,实际上也是权力格局的真实反映。

  曾几何时,“同志”一词被视为有训练官员“增强平等观念、训练民主意识”的作用。如今,政治文明的生态场越来越丰富,各地涌现了不少“个性官员”,“称呼学”理所应当该有所进化。除“同志”之外,称呼官衔很寻常,直呼其名也未尝不可,应容许个性称谓的存在,当然不能“庸俗”和“江湖气”。只有权力场的生态得以优化,官场称呼学才能展示更开放、自然的一面。(王钟的)
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wherestip
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闲扯: The typical meaning of "Boss" May 18, 2014

《中国青年报》文章原文: >>> 下属常称呼上级“Boss”(老板)

英文的 "Boss" 其实 和 中文的 “头儿” 比较相近,具体亦或 是 总管、经理、上司、领导、领班、工头, 等等。 "Boss" 一般是下级对上级的 俗称,很多情况下 可以说是 随便 或 套近乎儿的叫法。

So, for example, when you go to a store and ask to speak to a manager/supervisor - or the boss(俗称) - you're not really asking for th
... See more
《中国青年报》文章原文: >>> 下属常称呼上级“Boss”(老板)

英文的 "Boss" 其实 和 中文的 “头儿” 比较相近,具体亦或 是 总管、经理、上司、领导、领班、工头, 等等。 "Boss" 一般是下级对上级的 俗称,很多情况下 可以说是 随便 或 套近乎儿的叫法。

So, for example, when you go to a store and ask to speak to a manager/supervisor - or the boss(俗称) - you're not really asking for the owner (老板) specifically, but only for someone who is in charge that has some decision-making authority.

The Chinese term “老板” usually refers to the English word "owner". Of course small business "owners" are sometimes hands-on; and so they also double as the "boss". Whereas some big company "owners" don't have to lift a finger when it comes to everyday business operations. They don't have to get their hands dirty, so to speak, by "bossing" people around. For all intents and purposes, they're really nobody's "boss" per se but their own. They are just the "OWNERS".

~*~*~*~*~*

p.s., I'm not talking about the word "boss" in the sense of an overall decision maker, the guy who has the final say in an organization, such as the U.S. President, Berkshire Hathaway's Warren Buffett, etc..

p.p.s., FWIW, freelance translators mostly work for themselves, and operate as their own boss. So they are essentially small business "owners"(老板). Hire a few people on payroll, and then they're technically also a "boss".


[Edited at 2014-05-18 21:41 GMT]
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Fargoer
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真话 May 18, 2014

pkchan wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOoPXhzRRg4#t=94

2014年05月16日 06:06:41来源:中国青年报


  语言是反映现实环境的一种表述,与其刻意局限“称呼学”,还不如从中探究现实政治中是哪些因素决定了那样的称呼。如果党政机关一把手权力过大,一手操控下属的财权和人事权,那么下级称呼其为“老板”,实际上也是权力格局的真实反映。

 


这句是真话。称“老板”是因为官场像商场,称“老大”是因为官场像江湖。


 
Zhoudan
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导师也是老板 May 19, 2014

wherestip wrote:

《中国青年报》文章原文: >>> 下属常称呼上级“Boss”(老板)



博士生称导师为老板。


 
wherestip
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boss ⇏ 老板 May 19, 2014

Zhoudan wrote:

wherestip wrote:

《中国青年报》文章原文: >>> 下属常称呼上级“Boss”(老板)



博士生称导师为老板。


That must have been due to the association of the terms "supervisor" and "boss" too, since in British English, a PhD advisor is also called a supervisor.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctoral_advisor



A doctoral advisor (also dissertation director or dissertation advisor, and known in British English as a doctoral supervisor) is an advanced member of a university faculty whose role is to guide graduate students who are candidates for a doctorate degree, helping them select coursework, as well as shaping, refining and directing the students' choice of sub-discipline in which they will be examined and/or on which they will write a dissertation.[1] Students generally choose advisors based on their areas of interest within their discipline, their desire to work closely with particular graduate faculty, and the willingness and availability of those faculty to work with them.



Yet, IMO ...

supervisor boss 老板


 
wherestip
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老板 May 19, 2014



http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/boss_1

boss [countable]
1 the person who employs you or who is in charge of you at work [↪ employer, manager, supervisor]:
I'll have to ask my boss for a day off.
Since I'm my own boss (=I work for myself, rather than for an employer), my hours are flexible.

2 informal someone with an important position in a company or other organization:
the new boss at Paramount Pictures
union bosses

3 the person who is the strongest in a relationship, who controls a situation etc:
When you first start training a dog, it's important to let him see that you're the boss.
You've got to show the kids who's boss.



I'm sure someone is going to say or mumble under their breath that I don't know what "老板" means in the new-fangled Chinese vocabulary. But I'm strictly going by the traditional meaning of "owner".

你是老板吗?
不,我只是个店员/经理。


 
clairejie
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大小姐和贴面礼 May 19, 2014

前两个星期回了趟上海,和老公坐在人民公园晒太阳的时候,有个卖玫瑰花的老者称呼我为“大小姐”,觉得还挺新鲜的。

我觉得贴面礼挺好的。这次回到家乡看到许久不见的朋友,同性朋友自不必说,拥抱贴面热乎得很。可面对异性朋友却不知该如何表达重逢的那股喜悦劲儿,我是很有冲动上去贴一面的,却又怕吓着老友。

Alan Wang wrote:

咦,你怎么会受不了。这正是跟你们英国人学来的吧。看来西风太强势了,大大压倒东风。

我去年初才注意到这个现象,人家说这个字用法网络上流行有几年时间了。

再过些年头,中国人见面行起贴面礼来,有无可能?

什么年代了,还能授受不亲!特别是在吆喝的时候。



 
wherestip
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On the other hand May 19, 2014

wherestip wrote:



http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/boss_1

boss [countable]
1 the person who employs you or who is in charge of you at work [↪ employer, manager, supervisor]:
I'll have to ask my boss for a day off.
Since I'm my own boss (=I work for myself, rather than for an employer), my hours are flexible.

2 informal someone with an important position in a company or other organization:
the new boss at Paramount Pictures
union bosses

3 the person who is the strongest in a relationship, who controls a situation etc:
When you first start training a dog, it's important to let him see that you're the boss.
You've got to show the kids who's boss.



I'm sure someone is going to say or mumble under their breath that I don't know what "老板" means in the new-fangled Chinese vocabulary. But I'm strictly going by the traditional meaning of "owner".

你是老板吗?
不,我只是个店员/经理。


I also see the rationale behind calling a manager/supervisor “老板”. What else are you gonna call him?

"头儿" is probably too informal, and "经理" probably too formal and standoffish.

What if it's a female boss though? ... 老板娘?... Yikes!

... I'm just kidding. I'm sure that's not how it's done. ...


[Edited at 2014-05-19 16:16 GMT]


 
wherestip
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大小姐 May 19, 2014

clairejie wrote:

前两个星期回了趟上海,和老公坐在人民公园晒太阳的时候,有个卖玫瑰花的老者称呼我为“大小姐”,觉得还挺新鲜的。



我想这是旧时对有钱人家女儿的称呼吧?

~*~*~*~*~*~*


http://baike.baidu.com/subview/914299/6411233.htm



大小姐(汉语词语)

词语来源

多指旧时达官显贵的大户人家未出嫁的女儿,特别像皇帝、诸侯等权贵家的女儿都被尊称为“大小姐”。有时也别称“大家闺秀”或“阔小姐”。“小姐”作为称谓究竟起源于哪朝哪代,出自哪篇古籍典章,恐怕没人考证,也很难考证。词的原义在历史的长河中发生了很大的演变,宋代以前“小姐”一词是专指青楼妓女的,其后(具体何时尚不清楚)“小姐”是指官宦富贾之家的年轻未婚的女子,如大户人家、显赫名门的阔小姐、尚未婚嫁的少奶奶,才有资格享受小姐的称谓。穷人家的姑娘不管你多么年轻貌美,俊俏撩人,也是“小姐的身子丫环的命”。


词语延伸

大小姐:也有时指娇生惯养的女生。时下,小姐在人们的意识中好像是不雅的称呼,很不让女孩接受,所以大小姐,也不在 (sic) 成为贵族家庭女孩的称谓了。




[Edited at 2014-05-19 14:37 GMT]


 
Fargoer
Fargoer
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老伯的窘境 May 19, 2014

clairejie wrote:

前两个星期回了趟上海,和老公坐在人民公园晒太阳的时候,有个卖玫瑰花的老者称呼我为“大小姐”,觉得还挺新鲜的。


[/quote]


叫“小姐”?不行。
叫“大姐”?也不行。
叫“姐姐”?更不行。
叫“小大姐”?也许行。
叫“大小姐”?肯定行!


 
Fargoer
Fargoer
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忽然想起 May 19, 2014

clairejie wrote:


我觉得贴面礼挺好的。这次回到家乡看到许久不见的朋友,同性朋友自不必说,拥抱贴面热乎得很。可面对异性朋友却不知该如何表达重逢的那股喜悦劲儿,我是很有冲动上去贴一面的,却又怕吓着老友。


当年闹非典时,有人提出这样的高论:西方的握手礼和贴面礼都不如中国的拱手礼先进。因为没有身体接触,不会传播病毒和细菌。


 
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