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難字難詞漢譯
Thread poster: Kenneth Woo
wherestip
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Definition of Transcreation from Wikipedia Jun 1, 2014

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcreation



Transcreation is a term used chiefly by advertising and marketing professionals to refer to the process of adapting a message from one language to another, while maintaining its intent, style, tone and context. A successfully transcreated message evokes the same emotions and carries the same implications in the target language as it does in the source language. Increasingly, transcreation is used in global marketing and advertising campaigns as advertisers seek to transcend the boundaries of culture and language. It also takes account of images which are used within a creative message, ensuring that they are suitable for the target local market.

Terms with meanings similar to transcreation include ‘creative translation’, ‘cross-market copywriting’, ‘international copy adaptation’, ‘marketing translation’, ‘internationalization’, ‘localization’ and ‘cultural adaptation’. For each of these words and phrases, the thrust is similar: taking the essence of a message and re-creating it in another language or dialect.





Transcreation and translation

Translation and transcreation are related processes, but they are not identical. Translation in the Western world has a centuries-long history and has been marked in practice by two “ideal” approaches – metaphrase (word-for-word translation) – and paraphrase (i.e. “say in other words”). Due to idiom and the wide variety of local usages, word-for-word translation has long been considered inadequate and the best translations take into account the vocabulary, grammar, syntax, idiom and local usage of the target audience while remaining faithful to the text, and context, of the original document.

Transcreation expands upon translation by focusing not so much on the literal text, but on discerning the emotional response by viewers in the source language and working to elicit the same response from viewers in the target market. It is about “taking a concept in one language, and completely recreating it in another.”

Absolute fidelity to the text is secondary to eliciting the desired emotional response by the target audience. Because differences between cultures are so numerous, eliciting the same emotional reaction may also necessitate changes in the context of the message.

Companies seeking to market a product across different languages and cultures have a spectrum of viable services from which to choose, ranging from mechanical translation on one end to the full resources of a multinational advertising agency on the other. Transcreation agencies, which add marketing and copywriting expertise to the translation process, lie at the center of this spectrum. The right choice depends on the nature of the message, how it will be used to reach the target language, the marketing objective of the advertiser and the financial resources of the company requiring the service.




So basically what I'm saying is if it's marketing or advertising, it's probably okay for the translator to embellish a little or to have a freer hand in localizing into the target language. But if the client is strictly asking for a translation of the original text, I would think twice about putting meaning into the translation that wasn't there from the very beginning. IMHO, for advertising purposes, it's probably better to leave it to the client to be creative in the target language based on an unadulterated translation of the original anyway.


It's my opinion that it is always possible to express in passable English some original text written in Chinese, no matter how hackneyed and insipid the original might be (We see that in the reverse direction, i.e., English-to-Chinese translations all the time. Folks bending over backwards to stay true to the English original, for example). After all, there is usually still an inherent meaning or message in all the well-worn slogans and unpalatable blather. IMO, the most important function or job of a translator is to get the original meaning across. To convert some kind of hackneyed rhetoric into some cross-cultural form of old-hat rhetoric is definitely a salable skill; but I think it is more the combined job, or process, of a translator plus a recreator/rewriter.

Put another way, I believe a translator is wise to refrain from "transcreation" unless he or she is specifically tasked to do so, simply because it is not a translator's job to add or subtract meanings to or from the source text, regardless of how undesirable the text reads or sounds. Take ourselves for example, I don't think any of us would want our words to be changed or mistranslated without explicit authorization.

Just my 2 cents. I could be wrong though.


[Edited at 2014-06-02 09:46 GMT]


 
Phil Hand
Phil Hand  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 21:40
Chinese to English
翻译 substantial 时,问题在原文 Jun 1, 2014

stone118 wrote:

substantial 這字還真難呀,拿個電子辭典找幾個例句,我都沒什麼把握該怎麼翻。

I had a substantial meal.

They made substantial changes.

The house is substantial enough to last a hundred years.

He introduced us to a number of substantial farmers.

The stories told by the two boys are in substantial agreement.

People and things are substantial; dreams and ghosts are not.


我觉得substantial难翻的问题是因为这个词本身意思很不清楚。还没去查字典,我先把自己的感觉记下,再去研究别人怎么说。

substantial 明明跟substance物质、实质 有关,但又发生了变异,搞的有时候它是【物质形容词】,有时候只是【多/大】的意思,而且我估计讲英文的人对它有很大的分歧。

比如说,最后一句明显是说:人和东西都属于实体,而梦想和幽灵都不是。但是第一句中的substantial meal只是吃多的意思,这句中的substantial已经失去了与“实质”的关系。第四句也是,那些农夫地多钱多。

但另外几句都比较暧昧,不能确定是【大/多】还是【实质】。我估计问100个英国人第二句是什么意思,至少会出现三七分,有的人觉得substantial changes是改动核心,有的人觉得substantial changes是改动很多。

以上都是自己的想法,现在查字典:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/substantial
1. of ample or considerable amount, quantity, size, etc.: a substantial sum of money.
2. of a corporeal or material nature; tangible; real.
3. of solid character or quality; firm, stout, or strong: a substantial physique.
4. basic or essential; fundamental: two stories in substantial agreement.
对了,第一个定义就是大/多,接下来三个定义都跟实质有关。问题是英文的同义词多,那么在某一句话中,为什么选择用substantial 而不用large、great、considerable呢?正是因为它隐含那些“实质”的联想。比如说,我夸某某人的成就很伟大:a substantial achievement,听众不仅觉得她做的事情大,而且又很可靠,因为坚实。

那就是说,这个单词本身有歧义,而且为了让自己的措辞更华丽,我们很喜欢用暧昧的语意手段,玩弄这种很substantial的歧义,所以难怪它不好翻译!


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:40
Chinese to English
+ ...
Spin Doctors Jun 1, 2014

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_(public_relations)

IMHO, the area where China could need a little help, is in their spin towards the outside world of their foreign and domestic policies. But as I understand it, their Foreign Affairs always had the practice of hiring and promoting from within, which inevitably results in their personnel and spokespersons having a lifeti
... See more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_(public_relations)

IMHO, the area where China could need a little help, is in their spin towards the outside world of their foreign and domestic policies. But as I understand it, their Foreign Affairs always had the practice of hiring and promoting from within, which inevitably results in their personnel and spokespersons having a lifetime of immersion in their spin (in Chinese) to start out with. So the English translation of the spin always seems to be a little off, or awkward - or both, at least to my ears.

IMHO, that's one place where transcreation might be of tremendous help or benefit to give a boost to China's image on the world stage, of course provided that the transcreated message adheres to the essence of the specific foreign or domestic policy without distortion.


[Edited at 2014-06-01 21:26 GMT]
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Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 21:40
English to Chinese
+ ...
试译 Jun 1, 2014

stone118 wrote:

substantial 這字還真難呀,拿個電子辭典找幾個例句,我都沒什麼把握該怎麼翻。

I had a substantial meal.

They made substantial changes.

The house is substantial enough to last a hundred years.

He introduced us to a number of substantial farmers.

The stories told by the two boys are in substantial agreement.

People and things are substantial; dreams and ghosts are not.







[Edited at 2014-06-01 11:28 GMT]


我吃了一顿丰盛的饭。

他们做了大量的更改。

这所房子之坚固足以耐用一百年。

他把我们介绍给几个壮实的农民。

这两个孩子讲的情况基本一致。

人和物是真实不虚的;梦和鬼则不然。


不当之处,请批评指正。



[Edited at 2014-06-01 22:45 GMT]

[Edited at 2014-06-01 22:47 GMT]


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:40
Chinese to English
+ ...
Substantial farmers Jun 1, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:

stone118 wrote:

substantial 這字還真難呀,拿個電子辭典找幾個例句,我都沒什麼把握該怎麼翻。

I had a substantial meal.

They made substantial changes.

The house is substantial enough to last a hundred years.

He introduced us to a number of substantial farmers.

The stories told by the two boys are in substantial agreement.

People and things are substantial; dreams and ghosts are not.



我吃了一顿丰盛的饭。

他们做了大量的更改。

这所房子之坚固足以耐用一百年。

他把我们介绍给几个壮实的农民。

这两个孩子讲的情况基本一致。

人和物是真实不虚的;梦和鬼则不然。


不当之处,请批评指正。



J.H.,

I agree with all your interpretations except the one about the "substantial farmers".

Here's a dictionary definition I found on the web ...



http://www.wordcentral.com/cgi-bin/student?book=Student&va=substantial

3 a : PROSPEROUS 1 《a substantial farmer》 b : considerable in quantity : significantly large



... and a few other links that explains what the term "substantial farming" used to refer to ...


http://answerparty.com/question/answer/what-is-substantial-farming

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20121202192332AAJXBQT

http://www.chacha.com/question/what-is-substantial-farming


[Edited at 2014-06-01 23:25 GMT]


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 21:40
English to Chinese
+ ...
同意 Jun 2, 2014

wherestip wrote:

J.H. Wang wrote:

stone118 wrote:

substantial 這字還真難呀,拿個電子辭典找幾個例句,我都沒什麼把握該怎麼翻。

I had a substantial meal.

They made substantial changes.

The house is substantial enough to last a hundred years.

He introduced us to a number of substantial farmers.

The stories told by the two boys are in substantial agreement.

People and things are substantial; dreams and ghosts are not.



我吃了一顿丰盛的饭。

他们做了大量的更改。

这所房子之坚固足以耐用一百年。

他把我们介绍给几个壮实的农民。

这两个孩子讲的情况基本一致。

人和物是真实不虚的;梦和鬼则不然。


不当之处,请批评指正。



J.H.,

I agree with all your interpretations except the one about the "substantial farmers".

Here's a dictionary definition I found on the web ...



http://www.wordcentral.com/cgi-bin/student?book=Student&va=substantial

3 a : PROSPEROUS 1 《a substantial farmer》 b : considerable in quantity : significantly large



... and a few other links that explains what the term "substantial farming" used to refer to ...


http://answerparty.com/question/answer/what-is-substantial-farming

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20121202192332AAJXBQT

http://www.chacha.com/question/what-is-substantial-farming


[Edited at 2014-06-01 23:25 GMT]


其实,关于 substantial farmers 的翻译我也有过犹豫,因为缺乏上下文背景,我的语感也有欠缺。根据你提供的证据,可以翻译成:

他把我们介绍给几个富裕/家境殷实的农民。


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 21:40
English to Chinese
+ ...
substantial changes Jun 2, 2014

Phil Hand wrote:

我估计问100个英国人第二句是什么意思,至少会出现三七分,有的人觉得substantial changes是改动核心,有的人觉得substantial changes是改动很多。


我刚才查了一下金山词霸上的《简明英汉词典》,其中的一个例子把 substantial changes 翻译成“重大变动”,感觉“重大”的译法很不错。


 
Fargoer
Fargoer
Canada
Local time: 07:40
English to Chinese
俗点儿的 Jun 2, 2014



其实,关于 substantial farmers 的翻译我也有过犹豫,因为缺乏上下文背景,我的语感也有欠缺。根据你提供的证据,可以翻译成:

他把我们介绍给几个富裕/家境殷实的农民。


我理解这里的 substantial 是“真正”的意思,a substantial part of their life is farming,说他们真的以农为生,不是亦工亦农或亦商亦农的那种。英文中动词加-er 构成的名词,翻译成中文往往有困难。譬如 “writer” 译为“作者”或“作家”都行,但两个词在中文中可以有天壤之别。“translator” 的情况也类似,可以是“译者”,也可以是“翻译家”。我在自家后院种了几株番茄,我可以大言不惭地说,“I am a farmer”。但我绝不是“substantial farmer”。

如果上下文允许译得俗一点,或者说“京味”一点,也可以考虑译为:

他把我们介绍给了几个正儿八经的农民。

他把我们介绍给了几个真格的农民。



[Edited at 2014-06-02 02:03 GMT]


 
Fargoer
Fargoer
Canada
Local time: 07:40
English to Chinese
我也正想说“重大” Jun 2, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:

Phil Hand wrote:

我估计问100个英国人第二句是什么意思,至少会出现三七分,有的人觉得substantial changes是改动核心,有的人觉得substantial changes是改动很多。


我刚才查了一下金山词霸上的《简明英汉词典》,其中的一个例子把 substantial changes 翻译成“重大变动”,感觉“重大”的译法很不错。


其实,“重大”一词就有 phil Hand 所说的那种两可性,即可以是“重要的”,也可以是“大量的”。


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:40
Chinese to English
+ ...
Farmers in the United States Jun 2, 2014

Fargoer wrote:



其实,关于 substantial farmers 的翻译我也有过犹豫,因为缺乏上下文背景,我的语感也有欠缺。根据你提供的证据,可以翻译成:

他把我们介绍给几个富裕/家境殷实的农民。


我理解这里的 substantial 是“真正”的意思,a substantial part of their life is farming,说他们真的以农为生,不是亦工亦农或亦商亦农的那种。英文中动词加-er 构成的名词,翻译成中文往往有困难。譬如 “writer” 译为“作者”或“作家”都行,但两个词在中文中可以有天壤之别。“translator” 的情况也类似,可以是“译者”,也可以是“翻译家”。我在自家后院种了几株番茄,我可以大言不惭地说,“I am a farmer”。但我绝不是“substantial farmer”。

如果上下文允许译得俗一点,或者说“京味”一点,也可以考虑译为:

他把我们介绍给了几个正儿八经的农民。

他把我们介绍给了几个真格的农民。



Fargoer,

美国的 farmers 一般都是有大量地产的, 不同于 farmhands, 更没有什么半工半农、 亦商亦农 一说。 过去国内 farmer 一般都是译为 “农场主” 的, 确实有它的道理的。


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:40
Chinese to English
+ ...
和中国的老乡很不同 Jun 2, 2014

http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/farmer



farmer [countable]
someone who owns or manages a farm



 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 21:40
English to Chinese
+ ...
嗯,国情不同 Jun 2, 2014

wherestip wrote:

Fargoer wrote:



其实,关于 substantial farmers 的翻译我也有过犹豫,因为缺乏上下文背景,我的语感也有欠缺。根据你提供的证据,可以翻译成:

他把我们介绍给几个富裕/家境殷实的农民。


我理解这里的 substantial 是“真正”的意思,a substantial part of their life is farming,说他们真的以农为生,不是亦工亦农或亦商亦农的那种。英文中动词加-er 构成的名词,翻译成中文往往有困难。譬如 “writer” 译为“作者”或“作家”都行,但两个词在中文中可以有天壤之别。“translator” 的情况也类似,可以是“译者”,也可以是“翻译家”。我在自家后院种了几株番茄,我可以大言不惭地说,“I am a farmer”。但我绝不是“substantial farmer”。

如果上下文允许译得俗一点,或者说“京味”一点,也可以考虑译为:

他把我们介绍给了几个正儿八经的农民。

他把我们介绍给了几个真格的农民。



Fargoer,

美国的 farmers 一般都是有大量地产的, 不同于 farmhands, 更没有什么半工半农、 亦商亦农 一说。 过去国内 farmer 一般都是译为 “农场主” 的, 确实有它的道理的。


这里的 farmer 的确还是应该翻译成“农场主”。不然的话,怎么会都是富裕、殷实的?怪不得我搞错了。:-)


 
Phil Hand
Phil Hand  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 21:40
Chinese to English
嗯,重大就保留了英文中的两种含义 Jun 2, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:

我刚才查了一下金山词霸上的《简明英汉词典》,其中的一个例子把 substantial changes 翻译成“重大变动”,感觉“重大”的译法很不错。


 
Fargoer
Fargoer
Canada
Local time: 07:40
English to Chinese
概括性问题 Jun 2, 2014

wherestip wrote:




Fargoer,

美国的 farmers 一般都是有大量地产的, 不同于 farmhands, 更没有什么半工半农、 亦商亦农 一说。 过去国内 farmer 一般都是译为 “农场主” 的, 确实有它的道理的。


您说的没错。Farmer 译为农民的确不妥。虽然并非每个 farmer 都是土地的所有者,就像店铺的老板不一定是店铺房产的所有者一样,但他们一般都有相当数量的资金来租用土地(有些是银行贷款的),购买农机具和种子肥料,进行经营。译为“农场主”是国内的通例。

但是 “farmer ”这个词有时也用来指“农业劳动者”。实际上就是“farmhand”,或者“farm worker” 。只是在比较现代化的农业经济中,这两者才比较严格地划分开。
所以,在某些场合,“farmer” 相当于“农业从业人员”。

见下面的释义:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmer

所以,这里我们又遇到上一贴提到的-er词尾名词的概括性问题。英文的概括性比中文强一些。farmer 究竟是“农场主”还是“农业工人”,还是要根据上下文来判定。

我所说的“亦工亦农”或“亦商亦农”,主要是指 farmhands。由于农业的季节性,他们往往兼做其他工作。

[Edited at 2014-06-02 07:43 GMT]

[Edited at 2014-06-02 07:44 GMT]


 
Fargoer
Fargoer
Canada
Local time: 07:40
English to Chinese
还有一种可能 Jun 2, 2014

“substantial farmer” 也可能指他们是规模相当大的农场的场主,即“large scale farmers” 或 “owners of substantial scale farms”,相对于“small scale farmers” 而言。

在所谓的可持续性经济中,有新型的“small scale farm” 或 “mini farm” 出现。这种 mini farming 近似于 gardening。这些小型农场的经营者,就是“small scale farmer”,他们往往不是专营而是兼职的,甚至是业余的。家庭主妇�
... See more
“substantial farmer” 也可能指他们是规模相当大的农场的场主,即“large scale farmers” 或 “owners of substantial scale farms”,相对于“small scale farmers” 而言。

在所谓的可持续性经济中,有新型的“small scale farm” 或 “mini farm” 出现。这种 mini farming 近似于 gardening。这些小型农场的经营者,就是“small scale farmer”,他们往往不是专营而是兼职的,甚至是业余的。家庭主妇也能经营。

http://www.theprairiehomestead.com/2012/09/how-we-afford-to-homestead-on-one-income.html#sthash.fDruMM3E.dpbs



[Edited at 2014-06-02 08:50 GMT]

[Edited at 2014-06-02 08:57 GMT]
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