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Thread poster: Kenneth Woo
David Lin
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长句试译 May 27, 2014

Kenneth Woo wrote:

那句“I value your commitment”太難譯了,真是怎麼譯都彆扭。我昨天還看到一更難的:“We value being an open and transparent organisation and showcasing what we do to make the world safer and more secure.”或許我們可以用文言來譯?

這個長句,並非我所提句子的本來面目,而是稍有改動。那個句子本在一份公司用以內部培訓的測試題中。因為value的賓語有兩個,而且都很長,“重視”、“珍視”根本承載不了,所以我無奈妥協,譯成了:“公司認為,開放透明、向世人展示我們為讓世界更安全而做的工作非常重要。” 還是怎麼看都彆扭。

我覺得(並無證據)用文言來譯“I value your commitment”可能會容易一點。如果用文言來譯,先要譯“your commitment”,然後再譯“I value”,可惜我才疏學淺,想不到用什麼詞貼切。


Ken,

由于遣词造句等问题,这些公司内部培训翻译有时候会有一点难度。 但冷静将原句分析,应该可以如愿翻出原意。

Phil 的尝试很不错, 我也试试看。

-- 本公司重视开放和透明度,致力展现我们的努力,建立一个更安全和更多保障的世界。

用 ‘重视’ 在所难免,因为是公司的价值观,必需比 ‘认为’ 更强调一点的语气,才带权威性。后半句用 ‘致力’ 来表达 ‘重视’ 和 ‘透明度/开放’ 的含义,因此无须重复使用 ‘重视’,却用抱决心的态度/行动来表达公司的价值观。


 
Kenneth Woo
Kenneth Woo
China
Local time: 07:21
English to Chinese
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可能是我太古板了 May 29, 2014

David Lin wrote:

Kenneth Woo wrote:

@林大哥

“毒品康復”、“毒品復健”我覺得讀起來有些奇怪。我們通常說“身體康復”,“毒品康復”則讓我感覺是毒品生了病。



在 “康复计划” 之前,通常用 “戒酒和戒毒” 或 “吸毒”。有些地区好像香港和台湾都用 “毒品/药物康复” 以求精简易明 (将较负面含义的 “滥用” 二字略去),由来已久,已经深入民心,社会大众已普遍接纳这种表达方式。

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/那可拿

其实 alcohol and drug program/service 是 alcohol and drug “rehabilitation” program 的简称。当然服务范围除了戒毒、戒酒以外,其中也可能包括提高社会大众(尤其是学生)对这两种滥用问题的教育、防止的推广、,以及后续工作。所以很多国家单位都将 rehabilitation 或 education 两字略去,其中有 marketing 的考虑因素在内。

光从英语角度考虑,没有英语人士会怀疑 alcohol and drug program/service 以为是鼓吹吸毒或酗酒的服务或计划。大家都明白是对酗酒和滥用药物人士的帮助。

好像上星期我替一个临床心理学家翻译,他问客户: "Do you have alcohol or drug issues?" 其意思不是问客户曾经戒酒或戒毒,而是想知道对方有否毒瘾或酗酒的问题。其中 addiction 在口语中被略去。我们翻译都清楚其用法,知道是对客户的个人尊重的婉转提问,也是专业临床心理惯用语法。

至于中文翻译,同样道理,都是惯用写法,我们无需担心词义上的误解,否则会变成与社会脱节,对翻译工作无大帮助的。


林大哥:

語言的發展的確沒道理可講,可能是我太古板了。 : )

那個含"value“字的長句,你那麼翻譯也可以了,翻譯畢竟是翻譯,不能苛求。

我們做翻譯的太不容易,有時哪怕一個平常的句子,也不知要花多少氣力才能譯得自己滿意。前輩董樂山先生在《譯餘廢墨》裡說,要是叫他再選一次,他絕不再做翻譯,看來他是吃夠這一行的苦頭了。



[Edited at 2014-05-29 02:14 GMT]


 
Yan Yuliang
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值得学习 May 31, 2014

所谓翻译,是要把原文中的信息点,完全映射到译文中。
有时候这些“信息点”可能并非单词,但个别单词难译的时候,不妨尝试一下用更地道的语言把“信息点”表达出来。

说到这里,忽然想到我之前碰到的一段中译英,典型的中国式写作风格,翻译起来很困难:

集团将坚守“志高远、纳百川,创造行业新未来”的信念,秉承“严谨、务实、和谐、卓越”的企业价值观,“知行合一、与时俱进”,携手各界精英、共创辉煌。


各位遇到这种情况,一般如何处理?



David Lin wrote:

Kenneth Woo wrote:

那句“I value your commitment”太難譯了,真是怎麼譯都彆扭。我昨天還看到一更難的:“We value being an open and transparent organisation and showcasing what we do to make the world safer and more secure.”或許我們可以用文言來譯?

這個長句,並非我所提句子的本來面目,而是稍有改動。那個句子本在一份公司用以內部培訓的測試題中。因為value的賓語有兩個,而且都很長,“重視”、“珍視”根本承載不了,所以我無奈妥協,譯成了:“公司認為,開放透明、向世人展示我們為讓世界更安全而做的工作非常重要。” 還是怎麼看都彆扭。

我覺得(並無證據)用文言來譯“I value your commitment”可能會容易一點。如果用文言來譯,先要譯“your commitment”,然後再譯“I value”,可惜我才疏學淺,想不到用什麼詞貼切。


Ken,

由于遣词造句等问题,这些公司内部培训翻译有时候会有一点难度。 但冷静将原句分析,应该可以如愿翻出原意。

Phil 的尝试很不错, 我也试试看。

-- 本公司重视开放和透明度,致力展现我们的努力,建立一个更安全和更多保障的世界。

用 ‘重视’ 在所难免,因为是公司的价值观,必需比 ‘认为’ 更强调一点的语气,才带权威性。后半句用 ‘致力’ 来表达 ‘重视’ 和 ‘透明度/开放’ 的含义,因此无须重复使用 ‘重视’,却用抱决心的态度/行动来表达公司的价值观。


 
Jinhang Wang
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China
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请中译英好手 Alan May 31, 2014

Yan Yuliang wrote:

说到这里,忽然想到我之前碰到的一段中译英,典型的中国式写作风格,翻译起来很困难:

集团将坚守“志高远、纳百川,创造行业新未来”的信念,秉承“严谨、务实、和谐、卓越”的企业价值观,“知行合一、与时俱进”,携手各界精英、共创辉煌。


各位遇到这种情况,一般如何处理?




Alan 是从中译英起家的,能不能给大家 Show 一下如何翻译?

[Edited at 2014-06-04 13:44 GMT]


 
Jun Yuan
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或者可以增译了 May 31, 2014

Kenneth Woo wrote:

我昨天還看到一更難的:“We value being an open and transparent organisation and showcasing what we do to make the world safer and more secure.”或許我們可以用文言來譯?



我们十分看重自己作为一家开放和透明组织的声誉,并希望展现我们在增强世界安全和保障方面的能力。


 
Jun Yuan
Jun Yuan
China
Local time: 07:21
English to Chinese
+ ...
一般似乎是 May 31, 2014

Yan Yuliang wrote:

所谓翻译,是要把原文中的信息点,完全映射到译文中。
有时候这些“信息点”可能并非单词,但个别单词难译的时候,不妨尝试一下用更地道的语言把“信息点”表达出来。

说到这里,忽然想到我之前碰到的一段中译英,典型的中国式写作风格,翻译起来很困难:

集团将坚守“志高远、纳百川,创造行业新未来”的信念,秉承“严谨、务实、和谐、卓越”的企业价值观,“知行合一、与时俱进”,携手各界精英、共创辉煌。


各位遇到这种情况,一般如何处理?




With the mission to "..." and upholding the value of "..", our group aims to create a win-win situation by working closely with ... in a ...way.

[Edited at 2014-05-31 09:47 GMT]


 
Kenneth Woo
Kenneth Woo
China
Local time: 07:21
English to Chinese
TOPIC STARTER
謝謝 May 31, 2014

Jun Yuan wrote:

Kenneth Woo wrote:

我昨天還看到一更難的:“We value being an open and transparent organisation and showcasing what we do to make the world safer and more secure.”或許我們可以用文言來譯?



我们十分看重自己作为一家开放和透明组织的声誉,并希望展现我们在增强世界安全和保障方面的能力。


Jun Yuan,你的譯文很好,謝謝指教。


 
Kenneth Woo
Kenneth Woo
China
Local time: 07:21
English to Chinese
TOPIC STARTER
May 31, 2014

Yan Yuliang wrote:

说到这里,忽然想到我之前碰到的一段中译英,典型的中国式写作风格,翻译起来很困难:

集团将坚守“志高远、纳百川,创造行业新未来”的信念,秉承“严谨、务实、和谐、卓越”的企业价值观,“知行合一、与时俱进”,携手各界精英、共创辉煌。


各位遇到这种情况,一般如何处理?


這種文字和“黨八股”難分伯仲,即令霍克斯操筆,也未必能譯好。

除了傷腦,譯這種文字還有一個問題,就是譯多了易引起胃部不適。: P


 
Phil Hand
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China
Local time: 07:21
Chinese to English
干脆 May 31, 2014


“集团将坚守“志高远、纳百川,创造行业新未来”的信念,秉承“严谨、务实、和谐、卓越”的企业价值观,“知行合一、与时俱进”,携手各界精英、共创辉煌。”
翻译成
“We value being an open and transparent organisation and showcasing what we do to make the world safer and more secure.”,

“We value being an open and transparent organisation and showcasing what we do to make the world sa
... See more

“集团将坚守“志高远、纳百川,创造行业新未来”的信念,秉承“严谨、务实、和谐、卓越”的企业价值观,“知行合一、与时俱进”,携手各界精英、共创辉煌。”
翻译成
“We value being an open and transparent organisation and showcasing what we do to make the world safer and more secure.”,

“We value being an open and transparent organisation and showcasing what we do to make the world safer and more secure.”
翻译成
“集团将坚守“志高远、纳百川,创造行业新未来”的信念,秉承“严谨、务实、和谐、卓越”的企业价值观,“知行合一、与时俱进”,携手各界精英、共创辉煌。”
吧!

至于“党八股”其实还有一点不同:中国政府不想要也不需要把自己推广出去,而且党八股也是政府基本性质的真相;而企业的公司简介属于推广手段之一,而且与公司核心运作没有直接关系。

因此呢,政府文件的英文译稿还散发八股的味道不一定是坏事;公司简介保留中文的标准形式而不转换成更加悦耳的英文句子可能是翻译错误。

As an industry leader, we value being a visionary and inclusive organization. Our watchwords are compliance, goal-orientation, big picture thinking and excellence, and our broad range of partnerships keeps us both grounded and engaged, ensuring success for us and for the community.
Collapse


 
Kenneth Woo
Kenneth Woo
China
Local time: 07:21
English to Chinese
TOPIC STARTER
佩服 Jun 1, 2014

Phil Hand wrote:

“集团将坚守“志高远、纳百川,创造行业新未来”的信念,秉承“严谨、务实、和谐、卓越”的企业价值观,“知行合一、与时俱进”,携手各界精英、共创辉煌。”

As an industry leader, we value being a visionary and inclusive organization. Our watchwords are compliance, goal-orientation, big picture thinking and excellence, and our broad range of partnerships keeps us both grounded and engaged, ensuring success for us and for the community.


佩服!我認為比原文還好些。其實,有時翻譯真不是翻譯,而是改寫。


 
Zhoudan
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translation is rewriting Jun 1, 2014

我的翻译老师第一节课就说这个。


Kenneth Woo wrote:

其實,有時翻譯真不是翻譯,而是改寫。


 
jyuan_us
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我的翻译老师从来没说过这个,但是我早就悟出了 Jun 1, 2014

译文比原文好的情况其实每天出现。 而且,像那些名牌可口可乐,兰寇什么的,难道不是比原文强1800倍以上吗? 可惜了草创者,想出来这些名字,可能也就是拿到一两块钱的佣金。

说一个十有八九会翻译错误的词:SUBSTANTIAL。


 
Yi-Hua Shih
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Taiwan
Local time: 07:21
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substantial Jun 1, 2014

substantial 這字還真難呀,拿個電子辭典找幾個例句,我都沒什麼把握該怎麼翻。

I had a substantial meal.

They made substantial changes.

The house is substantial enough to last a hundred years.

He introduced us to a number of substantial farmers.

The stories told by the two boys are in substantial agreement.

People and things
... See more
substantial 這字還真難呀,拿個電子辭典找幾個例句,我都沒什麼把握該怎麼翻。

I had a substantial meal.

They made substantial changes.

The house is substantial enough to last a hundred years.

He introduced us to a number of substantial farmers.

The stories told by the two boys are in substantial agreement.

People and things are substantial; dreams and ghosts are not.







[Edited at 2014-06-01 11:28 GMT]
Collapse


 
Yan Yuliang
Yan Yuliang  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:21
English to Chinese
+ ...
高手 Jun 1, 2014

Phil Hand wrote:

因此呢,政府文件的英文译稿还散发八股的味道不一定是坏事;公司简介保留中文的标准形式而不转换成更加悦耳的英文句子可能是翻译错误。

As an industry leader, we value being a visionary and inclusive organization. Our watchwords are compliance, goal-orientation, big picture thinking and excellence, and our broad range of partnerships keeps us both grounded and engaged, ensuring success for us and for the community.


cannot agree more,尤其是这句话:
“公司简介保留中文的标准形式而不转换成更加悦耳的英文句子可能是翻译错误。”

我自己也尝试了一下:
We are a prudent and practical enterprise group with a harmonious working culture. In order to excel in our industry, we have been vigorously implementing the latest technologies and constantly improving our workflow. With an ambious goal, we embrace diversity and welcome top-noch experts to join us and create a new future for the industry.


 
wherestip
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United States
Local time: 18:21
Chinese to English
+ ...
Good job in "TRANSCREATION" Jun 1, 2014

Yan Yuliang wrote:

Phil Hand wrote:

因此呢,政府文件的英文译稿还散发八股的味道不一定是坏事;公司简介保留中文的标准形式而不转换成更加悦耳的英文句子可能是翻译错误。

As an industry leader, we value being a visionary and inclusive organization. Our watchwords are compliance, goal-orientation, big picture thinking and excellence, and our broad range of partnerships keeps us both grounded and engaged, ensuring success for us and for the community.


cannot agree more,尤其是这句话:
“公司简介保留中文的标准形式而不转换成更加悦耳的英文句子可能是翻译错误。”

我自己也尝试了一下:
We are a prudent and practical enterprise group with a harmonious working culture. In order to excel in our industry, we have been vigorously implementing the latest technologies and constantly improving our workflow. With an ambious goal, we embrace diversity and welcome top-noch experts to join us and create a new future for the industry.


Well written English. But to tell you the truth, I don't see how you got from A to B.


 
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