taillé géométriquement à la demande

English translation: their shape cut to fit

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:taillé géométriquement à la demande
English translation:their shape cut to fit
Entered by: angela3thomas

18:29 Jun 23, 2017
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Archaeology / ancient art
French term or phrase: taillé géométriquement à la demande
Hi again! Apologies for all the context, but I thought it might help.
DOC: 1907 Museum catalog of ancient Egyptian mirrors. Catalog entry.
CONTEXT: 44093. Ornement de base de manche de miroir. - Or et pierres d'incrustation. - [....] Technique: Les cellules, dont les cloisons ont un demi-millimètre d'épaisseur, ont été fondues séparément, puis soudées entre elles et sur la tablette, qui est un bouton d'or plat un peu moins épais. Les pièces d'incrustation, ***taillées géométriquement à la demande** et polies du côté extérieur, sont maintenues dans les cellules sur un lit épais de mastic.
Plate XX #24
http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/morgan1895/0194?sid=...
ATTEMPT: The pieces of inlay, geometrically custom-cut and polished on the exterior side, are held in the segments on a thick bed of mastic.
ISSUE: A better way to phrase this?
Thanks in advance for any ideas!
angela3thomas
United States
their shape cut to fit
Explanation:
Trying to get around that awkward "taillées géométriquement":

"...the inlaid pieces, their shape cut to fit the shape defined by the cloisons and polished on the exterior surface, are held in place by a thick bed of mastic."

Or could his "taillées géométriquement" mean something like "precisely cut [to fit]"?

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Note added at 2 days18 hrs (2017-06-26 12:58:24 GMT)
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The problem is that many of the stone pieces (which are not actually "mosaic" tesserai, btw) precisely cut to fit within the defining cloisons are not "geometric" in the English sense of the word.

Moreover, there are a hundred separate pieces of colored "stone" in that illustration, and I am at a loss understanding why (or how) each individual colored element within the cloison frames could be a separate piece of (meticulously) custom cut stone; this technique of cloisonée work is ideally suited for the true enamel medium (i.e., the fields are filled with powdered glass, then baked to liquefy the glass, cooling into a uniform stone-like mass).

But, Bénéditi says that they are "pierres" so, waddayagoinado?

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Note added at 2 days18 hrs (2017-06-26 12:58:45 GMT)
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Suspend disbelief?

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Note added at 3 days17 hrs (2017-06-27 12:26:39 GMT)
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To clarify:

Bénéditi says that what we have here is "pierres" (relatively large and small) which are cut to fit within "cloisons" --usually thin pieces of wire which are "soldered" onto the metal ground to form a kind of "frame" around the colored elements of the design.

As far as I am aware (and it is definitely not my field of expertise), the enamel on cloisonée enamel work is not referred to in French as "pierres" --those elements are made of glass paste which has been melted to form a fused glass, which then fills in the space between the cloisons. It may be that B.'s "pierre" here is in the sense of a stone-like material; but I've never seen such a usage. Check the Grand Robert.

Looking at the object on the digi-ub.uni-heidelberg site, it seems to me *extremely unlikely* that all those dozens of smaller colored elements are (literally) "stones," each one precisely cut to fit the tiny spaces between the cloisons.

The Egyptians bloody well *invented* glass (and they invented enamel work as well, at a very early date), so my guess is that this is what it clearly appears to be: enamel work.

But, Bénéditi doesen't say "émail," he says "pierres," so that's what they were (for him and for anyone else who happens to read him, either in the original or in the skilled translation).

Again, it might be worth checking the Grand Robert (or the Academy's dictionary, which is pretty good on historical meanings which may have fallen into obscurity subsequently).
Selected response from:

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 06:09
Grading comment
Thank you!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4their shape cut to fit
Christopher Crockett


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


2 days 18 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
their shape cut to fit


Explanation:
Trying to get around that awkward "taillées géométriquement":

"...the inlaid pieces, their shape cut to fit the shape defined by the cloisons and polished on the exterior surface, are held in place by a thick bed of mastic."

Or could his "taillées géométriquement" mean something like "precisely cut [to fit]"?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days18 hrs (2017-06-26 12:58:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The problem is that many of the stone pieces (which are not actually "mosaic" tesserai, btw) precisely cut to fit within the defining cloisons are not "geometric" in the English sense of the word.

Moreover, there are a hundred separate pieces of colored "stone" in that illustration, and I am at a loss understanding why (or how) each individual colored element within the cloison frames could be a separate piece of (meticulously) custom cut stone; this technique of cloisonée work is ideally suited for the true enamel medium (i.e., the fields are filled with powdered glass, then baked to liquefy the glass, cooling into a uniform stone-like mass).

But, Bénéditi says that they are "pierres" so, waddayagoinado?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days18 hrs (2017-06-26 12:58:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Suspend disbelief?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days17 hrs (2017-06-27 12:26:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To clarify:

Bénéditi says that what we have here is "pierres" (relatively large and small) which are cut to fit within "cloisons" --usually thin pieces of wire which are "soldered" onto the metal ground to form a kind of "frame" around the colored elements of the design.

As far as I am aware (and it is definitely not my field of expertise), the enamel on cloisonée enamel work is not referred to in French as "pierres" --those elements are made of glass paste which has been melted to form a fused glass, which then fills in the space between the cloisons. It may be that B.'s "pierre" here is in the sense of a stone-like material; but I've never seen such a usage. Check the Grand Robert.

Looking at the object on the digi-ub.uni-heidelberg site, it seems to me *extremely unlikely* that all those dozens of smaller colored elements are (literally) "stones," each one precisely cut to fit the tiny spaces between the cloisons.

The Egyptians bloody well *invented* glass (and they invented enamel work as well, at a very early date), so my guess is that this is what it clearly appears to be: enamel work.

But, Bénéditi doesen't say "émail," he says "pierres," so that's what they were (for him and for anyone else who happens to read him, either in the original or in the skilled translation).

Again, it might be worth checking the Grand Robert (or the Academy's dictionary, which is pretty good on historical meanings which may have fallen into obscurity subsequently).

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 06:09
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 131
Grading comment
Thank you!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  mrrafe: I'd probably suspend disbelief. It's a slippery slope when the translator starts using personal knowledge to reject the deceased author's opinions. /// Agreed, that you and I were merely having a side discussion.
11 hrs
  -> As I've said on several occasions before with this author, personal opinions (or, for that matter, subsequent scholarship) should NOT be used in the translation --which should only conform to the author's text. My answer here is so based. Read it again.
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