Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
d'une légèreté très sensible comparativement à
English translation:
is noticeably lighter in weight than that of other mirrors
Added to glossary by
Christopher Crockett
Jun 5, 2017 18:02
6 yrs ago
French term
d'une légèreté très sensible comparativement à
French to English
Art/Literary
Archaeology
ancient art
Hi again!
DOC: 1907 Museum catalog of ancient Egyptian mirrors. Catalog entry.
CONTEXT: 44080. Disque de miroir. - Bronze fourré d'étain ou de fer. Height 15.8 cm, width 16.3 cm, thickness 2.5 mm; weight 0.301 kg. Le disque entièrement plat est, malgré son épaisseur relative, doué d'une certaine flexibilité et peut se redresser à la main. Il est en même temps, ***d'une légèreté très sensible comparativement aux autres.***
ATTEMPT: Despite its relative thickness, the totally flat disk has a certain amount of flexibility and can be straightened by hand. At the same time it is noticeably flimsier/lighter than the others.
ISSUE: Not sure which it is. The weights go from 3 pèsent moins de 200 grammes; 4 pèsent moins de 300 grammes; [...] Six pèsent plus d'un kilogramme.
Thanks in advance for any opinions.
DOC: 1907 Museum catalog of ancient Egyptian mirrors. Catalog entry.
CONTEXT: 44080. Disque de miroir. - Bronze fourré d'étain ou de fer. Height 15.8 cm, width 16.3 cm, thickness 2.5 mm; weight 0.301 kg. Le disque entièrement plat est, malgré son épaisseur relative, doué d'une certaine flexibilité et peut se redresser à la main. Il est en même temps, ***d'une légèreté très sensible comparativement aux autres.***
ATTEMPT: Despite its relative thickness, the totally flat disk has a certain amount of flexibility and can be straightened by hand. At the same time it is noticeably flimsier/lighter than the others.
ISSUE: Not sure which it is. The weights go from 3 pèsent moins de 200 grammes; 4 pèsent moins de 300 grammes; [...] Six pèsent plus d'un kilogramme.
Thanks in advance for any opinions.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 | is noticeably lighter in weight than that of other mirrors |
Christopher Crockett
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| 3 +1 | lightness (etc.) |
mrrafe
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Change log
Jun 6, 2017 23:52: Yolanda Broad changed "Term asked" from "d\\\'une légèreté très sensible comparativement à" to "d\'une légèreté très sensible comparativement à "
Jun 10, 2017 14:55: Christopher Crockett Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
18 hrs
Christopher Crockett
Native in English
Specializes in field
M.A., Ph.D. Historian/Art Historian
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
131
French term (edited):
d\'une légèreté très sensible comparativement à
Selected
is noticeably lighter in weight than that of other mirrors
Bronze, plated with pewter or iron [sic??]. The completely flat disk, despite its relative thickness, is noticeably lighter in weight than that of other mirrors, possessing a certain amount of flexibility which allows it to be adjusted by hand.
I've done considerable damage to the syntax of the original, partly in order to try and make sense out of some apparent contradictions within the description. And I'm still not sure that I understand how what he appears to be saying is possible with the object he is describing:
Lessee, the disk has a bronze core, plated with pewter or iron[??], and is thicker than some/most of the others, yet it is thin enough to be flexible enough to be deformed/distorted/adjusted by hand? (And yet, presumably, the other, thinner disks were *not* capable of being so adjusted?? Makes no sense, to me.)
Plus, it is not at all clear to me why B. cannot make the (relatively easy?) distinction between a plating over the bronze of pewter (which polishes relatively easily, but only tarnishes with oxidation) and iron (which polishes with some difficulty and *rusts* with oxidation).
The only way I can see that the disk can be thicker, and yet *lighter* in weight is if the bronze core is relatively thin and the (lighter weight) pewter (surely not iron) plating is relatively thick.
This might account for the fact that the disk is capable of being "distorted" by hand --pewter is certainly more malleable than bronze (or, for that matter, iron).
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Note added at 18 hrs (2017-06-06 12:51:39 GMT)
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As a purely practical matter (and not at all relevant to the problem of translation), is it really possible to polish either pewter or iron to a high enough degree to serve as a *cosmetic* mirror (i.e., capable of reflecting a face)?
On the other hand, if the purpose of the mirror is to reflect/replicate/capture the disk of the sun in the disk of the mirror --in a "liturgical" context-- then I should think that either one of these metals (or, for that matter, bronze) would do the job.
I've done considerable damage to the syntax of the original, partly in order to try and make sense out of some apparent contradictions within the description. And I'm still not sure that I understand how what he appears to be saying is possible with the object he is describing:
Lessee, the disk has a bronze core, plated with pewter or iron[??], and is thicker than some/most of the others, yet it is thin enough to be flexible enough to be deformed/distorted/adjusted by hand? (And yet, presumably, the other, thinner disks were *not* capable of being so adjusted?? Makes no sense, to me.)
Plus, it is not at all clear to me why B. cannot make the (relatively easy?) distinction between a plating over the bronze of pewter (which polishes relatively easily, but only tarnishes with oxidation) and iron (which polishes with some difficulty and *rusts* with oxidation).
The only way I can see that the disk can be thicker, and yet *lighter* in weight is if the bronze core is relatively thin and the (lighter weight) pewter (surely not iron) plating is relatively thick.
This might account for the fact that the disk is capable of being "distorted" by hand --pewter is certainly more malleable than bronze (or, for that matter, iron).
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2017-06-06 12:51:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
As a purely practical matter (and not at all relevant to the problem of translation), is it really possible to polish either pewter or iron to a high enough degree to serve as a *cosmetic* mirror (i.e., capable of reflecting a face)?
On the other hand, if the purpose of the mirror is to reflect/replicate/capture the disk of the sun in the disk of the mirror --in a "liturgical" context-- then I should think that either one of these metals (or, for that matter, bronze) would do the job.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
mrrafe
: You are opening doors that Osiris never meant for man to open.
7 hrs
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Are you saying that Osiris can understand Bénéditi's text here? Then why ain't he doing the translation? He don't speak English? Thanks anyway, mm.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you!"
+1
2 hrs
French term (edited):
d\'une légèreté très sensible comparativement à
lightness (etc.)
I think lightness is a better choice than flimsiness because (1) the meanings of the word lightness can include flimsiness and (2) the preceding sentence about straightening by hand, etc. already tells us it is flimsy, so there would be no need to say "en meme temps" it is flimsy.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Christopher Crockett
: "Flimsy" also implies a certain lack of quality --which is not what is meant here. Just that it's thinner and thus more flexible than the others --not "flimsy"/of shoddy quality. I can't think of a good (single) word, hence my rewording below.
15 hrs
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Thanks. That's correct.
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Discussion
Thicker than usual, and yet somewhat flexible?
I find this one to be very curious indeed.
Pewter (=lead + tin) is quite easily worked/polished, with a relatively low melting point and a great deal of malleability. But can it be polished to a high enough degree to serve as a good, detailed reflector? Better than bronze? I don't know.
Adding a thin amount of iron plating must have been a tricky process --iron must have a higher melting point than bronze; and can it really be polished to a high enough degree to be a good reflector of detail?
Perhaps there was some other ("symbolic"?) reason for plating the bronze with one or the other of these metals?